# Does this headline bother you? ("Black" as a noun) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126 "2010-06-22T14:52:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/21 "2010-06-22T16:20:11Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But how are we supposed to know from reading it that it’s a black man and not another woman who is black? Because then it would say “women.” > [@](#): > > Is man really superfluous? Yes. > [@](#): > > It could be a white woman and a black woman that are running. No. If so, the headline would read “Two women seek to become firsts in SC runoff” or "“Two women, one of them black, seek to become firsts in SC runoff.” > [@](#): > > I think the reason it sounds so weird (to me) is that they’re both being trotted out as sort of “weird” categories. Like, what’s the race of the first woman? Obviously not black, and thus immaterial because it’s not being regarded as a significant “first.” > [@](#): > > What’s the gender of the black? Obviously not female, as it’s listed separately from the woman. > [@](#): > > What’s the gender of the black? Probably white. Now that sounds like a neat trick! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/22 "2010-06-22T16:20:16Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Really? I thought South Asians counted as Asians. (Although I wouldn’t usually say, for instance, “my friend Tannistha is Asian”, I’d say “my friend Tannistha is Indian”; I am aware that this usage is not universal.) In the UK we’re Asian. Most Americans don’t see it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/23 "2010-06-22T16:32:02Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That was probably someone who had never heard of Sikhism as a religion. (And who, if they watched [Bend It Like Beckham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_It_Like_Beckham), missed all the religious references. When I saw it I suspected that they knew very well that she was brought up as a Sikh, but figured their audience didn’t know what that was and they did know that Buddhists worship naked Santa Claus. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/24 "2010-06-22T16:34:36Z")
It is is an odd usage. Maybe it’s not intended to be racist, but it _looks_ racist. The word ‘wog’ has even fewer letters, but you wouldn’t use that; keeping the headline short is of lower priority than getting your meaning across. In any case, even without the racism it’s a terrible headline because it looks like black could be an adjective. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Black” as a noun always bothers me, until I think about “white” as a noun and realize _that_ doesn’t bother me at all. > > I think it’s because of a scene title in _Birth of a Nation_, “Disarming the Blacks”, where a couple of Klansmen scare dozens of black rebels into dropping their guns and running away, presumably by dint of their inherent superiority. Yeah - I’d say it’s because of things like that where ‘black’ is used in contrast, not to ‘white,’ but to ‘normal person.’ Black as a noun carries a lot of baggage with it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/25 "2010-06-22T16:37:53Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That was probably someone who had never heard of Sikhism as a religion. (And who, if they watched [Bend It Like Beckham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_It_Like_Beckham), missed all the religious references. I don’t think the film ever explicitly mentioned that the family was Sikh, so half the US newspaper reading public probably guessed Muslim or Hindu. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/26 "2010-06-22T16:45:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think the film ever explicitly mentioned that the family was Sikh, so half the US newspaper reading public probably guessed Muslim or Hindu. Well, there was one scene where Jess was talking about who she would be allowed to marry, and she said that a Muslim boy would be right out, so she couldn’t have been Muslim. The strongest clue to their religion would have been the picture of the Sikh Guru hanging up in their living room, which was occasionally addressed by Jess’s mother. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/27 "2010-06-22T16:46:05Z")
Sure, but how many Americans have even _heard_ of Guru Nanak? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/28 "2010-06-22T16:47:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure, but how many Americans have even _heard_ of Guru Nanak? Wasn’t he a character on DS9? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/29 "2010-06-22T16:57:37Z")
Hardly matters - I doubt people who would be seriously upset that a political candidate might be a stealth Buddhist watched a furrin movie about furrin people. ---
**Author:** ![Caveat\_lector\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@Caveat\_lector\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caveat_lector_1)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/30 "2010-06-22T18:03:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Black” as a noun always bothers me, until I think about “white” as a noun and realize _that_ doesn’t bother me at all. I’d say for me that “white” used in the same way that “black” is in this context would bother me. I wouldn’t get offended and pitch a fit, but it would make me wary of the person using it as a possible bigot. It just seems somehow dehumanizing in a way I can’t quite place. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/31 "2010-06-22T21:54:59Z")
> [@JerseyFrank](#): > > is it not an adjective? > > I think the headline works with any adjective that would reasonable describe the woman. I didn’t realize that the headline was about two people, either since I skimmed over the “s” in firsts. YMMV, though, since there are a great number of headlines that make no sense to me upon first reading them. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/32 "2010-06-23T17:56:58Z")
Having taken a university course that covered headline writing, I’d say this was a terrible decision on the part of the editor (who’s probably the one who wrote the headline). If anybody wants a professional opinion, I could try dropping a line to my old professor. > [@Kyla](#): > > Really? I thought South Asians counted as Asians. Not by ye olde officiale racial theory. People from the India are Caucasian. (Causing all sorts of hilarity during poorly designed “racial sensitivity” type work exercises, where someone like my half-Pakistani friend gets to mark Caucasian as her race and put in the same bin with the people of entirely European background.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/33 "2010-06-25T04:23:40Z")
I just think the headline was shortened to the point of confusion. It may technically be able to be parsed, but that isn’t the point of a headline. Now that we aren’t competing for space considerations, the point of using as few words as possible is to make it a fast read. This fails at that. Adding 3 letters and a space is worth it for clarity. If “black” were used where it were more obviously a noun, then I wouldn’t have a problem with it, unless, like Jap, the people it is describing would be offended, which I take is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/34 "2010-06-25T04:39:39Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Not by ye olde officiale racial theory. People from the India are Caucasian. (Causing all sorts of hilarity during poorly designed “racial sensitivity” type work exercises, where someone like my half-Pakistani friend gets to mark Caucasian as her race and put in the same bin with the people of entirely European background.) I’m filling out an employment application form at the moment, and the EO form puts East Indian under the Asian category, with White/Caucasian as a different category. I suppose it varies. > [@](#): > > That was probably someone who had never heard of Sikhism as a religion. It’s kind of amazing how many people haven’t. A few years ago a very nice lady of my acquaintance told a story in which she assumed that the turbaned men she saw were Muslim. I had to tell her they were Sikhs and explain what that is–and there is a sizeable, long-established Sikh population in a nearby town. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/35 "2010-06-25T05:56:09Z")
> [@Caveat\_lector\_1](#): > > I’d say for me that “white” used in the same way that “black” is in this context would bother me. I wouldn’t get offended and pitch a fit, but it would make me wary of the person using it as a possible bigot. It just seems somehow dehumanizing in a way I can’t quite place. I think its because it sounds antiquated, and even though its not racist, I think refering to someone as “a black” or “a white” sounds like something you’d hear in a book or movie that dates back to when a lot of people were racist. Sorta like calling a black person “colored”. Its not exactly racist (ask the NAACP), but its still a word that gets associated in my head with old-timey racists, just because of the setting I associate it with. Also agree with others that putting aside the racial component, the headline also takes some extra effort to parse and would be a lot easier to read with the addition of the word “man”. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126/36 "2010-06-25T06:09:35Z")
Things have to work in headlines when they don’t have to work anywhere else. That said, I love the phrase “black as a noun.” I am trying to figure out how to use it in a sentence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-headline-bother-you-black-as-a-noun/544126.md?page=1)