# Does this settle the vaccines cause autism question? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137 "2011-08-26T04:26:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/41 "2011-08-28T21:47:16Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > So you’re telling me that if your child had breathing problems after the DTaP (coincidence? donno) you’d take him back for a booster a year later against your doc’s advice? I’d take a close look at that doctor’s advice (and whether it’s in accord with consensus good medical practice) and consider the risks of pulmonary complications from contracting the diseases which are preventable through vaccination. The previously linked to article in _Pediatrics_ by a pediatric immunization expert noted that > [@](#): > > One well-controlled study was performed using the computerized records of children born between 1991 and 1997 who were enrolled in 4 large health maintenance organizations (HMOs).32 This cohort was used to identify 18 407 children with asthma. Relative risks of asthma in vaccinated children were determined by comparison with children who did not receive vaccines. The relative risk for asthma was 0.92 for the combination diphtheria-tetanus-whole-cell pertussis vaccine… Now this measured an overall association between childhood asthma and getting vaccinated, and involved a form of this particular vaccine (DTP) discontinued in developed countries in favor of the DTaP which is thought to be even safer to use. So the findings aren’t directly applicable to your child’s situation. But it’s noteworthy that the study found a small _protective_ effect of the DTP vaccine against asthma. While this is of dubious statistical significance, it certainly didn’t demonstrate that vaccination causes asthma. Pediatricians vary in how they approach vaccination issues. The vast majority approve of and encourage the use of the vaccination schedule recommended by the CDC and American Association of Pediatrics, as well as immunizing their own kids in accordance with it. Some recognize that parental fears and misinformation will prevent this from happening, and go along with a non-evidence based partial or delayed schedule, figuring that some protection is better than none and that it is best to compromise rather than driving the parent(s) to a physician who is opposed to vaccination altogether. I have no idea what type of doc you’re dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/42 "2011-08-28T21:59:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Some recognize that parental fears and misinformation will prevent this from happening, and go along with a non-evidence based partial or delayed schedule, figuring that some protection is better than none and that it is best to compromise rather than driving the parent(s) to **a physician who is opposed to vaccination altogether**. For the sake of all that is good and holy, please tell me that such individuals are exceedingly rare. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/43 "2011-08-28T22:57:30Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > a physician who is opposed to vaccination altogether. > [@Washoe](#): > > For the sake of all that is good and holy, please tell me that such individuals are exceedingly rare. :eek: Any such number \> 1 is too high. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/44 "2011-08-28T23:04:32Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > For the sake of all that is good and holy, please tell me that such individuals are exceedingly rare. :eek: They’re a small but loud and embarassing minority of physicians; I wouldn’t call them “exceedingly rare”. Two pediatricians who’ve gotten a disproportionate amount of media attention for their antivaccination views are [Dr. Bob Sears](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full) (who promotes an “alternative vaccine schedule”) and [Dr. Jay Gordon](http://drjaygordon.com/vaccinations/vaccination-schedule.html) (Jenny McCarthy’s pediatrician), who has acknowledged online that he gives very few vaccines, though if parents insist he apparently will grudgingly acquiesce. Both of these physicians would bristle at being called “antivax”, but both have spread a great deal of antivax nonsense. Here’s another “alternative vaccine schedule”-promoting doc (Google for more) who has [a classically nutty take](http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller15.html) on vaccine fearmongering. Sometimes you’ll see references on antivax sites to [the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Physicians_and_Surgeons), [a fringe group](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/02/the_journal_of_american_physicians_and_s.php) whose positions include opposition to mandatory vaccination, abortion, public health programs (which it calls “tyranny”) and climate change denial. They publish a “medical journal” featuring bizarre and offensive screeds on their favorite topics. A kindred spirit when it comes to Libertarian sentiments and opposing mandatory vaccination is Ron Paul, a physician who some take seriously as a candidate for President. They’re out there. And of course, chiropractors and “alternative medicine” practitioners are generally quite likely to deride and oppose vaccination because it violates their wooist principles, as a means of attacking mainstream medicine, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/45 "2011-08-29T16:19:52Z")
Well, I think this thread shows that the question is never going to be settled, no matter how many studies come out. Like the saying goes, you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/46 "2011-08-30T11:46:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We’re telling you that we’d all try to protect our children, and that child being more vulnerable than usual is all the more reason to protect him. You’re the one arguing _against_ protecting your child. Why are you arguing that? :smack: I wouldn’t have given him peanut butter sandwiches then, either. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’d take a close look at that doctor’s advice (and whether it’s in accord with consensus good medical practice) and consider the risks of pulmonary complications from contracting the diseases which are preventable through vaccination. > > While this is of dubious statistical significance, it certainly didn’t demonstrate that vaccination causes asthma. Good thing I never said that it did. :dubious: I think there’s a difference between me who has had her child immunized on damn near everything available but had a very bad complication and the parent that just refuses to do anything based on tweensy chance that something will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/47 "2011-08-30T14:28:42Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I think there’s a difference between me who has had her child immunized on damn near everything available but had a very bad complication and the parent that just refuses to do anything based on tweensy chance that something will happen. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > At the very least, the ‘question’ has (hopefully) made parents more aware of what they’re injecting their kids full of. > > When I was a kid, I probably had about 5 to 8 shots. Now, my son is supposed to have 18 by the age of 7. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > I stopped vaccinating my child. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > But I do think it’s very valid for parents to say to drug companies, “Hey, wtf are you putting in these legally-mandated drugs?” and for the drug companies to respond. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > It’s not like drugs are always safe. As long as you keep regurgitating classic antivax tropes, you’ll resemble “the parent that just refuses to do anything based on tweensy chance that something will happen”. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137/48 "2011-08-30T17:19:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This doesn’t settle anything. To the extent that anyone bases their position on the matter on science, it was settled long ago. To the extent that people base their opinions on senseless irrational hysteria, they’ll continue to do so. This may be the truest thing I have read on SD. I think rationality is losing the battle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-settle-the-vaccines-cause-autism-question/594137.md?page=2)