# Does this woman seem sane to you?(long) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 18, 2001, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929 "2001-08-18T20:14:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dentarthurdent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@dentarthurdent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dentarthurdent)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/1 "2001-08-18T20:14:22Z")
Just got this from a friend, apparently he found it on a newsgroup. And yes I am a gamer… From: Candace Brooks ([Cbrooks@utilnet.org](mailto:Cbrooks@utilnet.org)) Subject: Hubby’s hobby/lifestyle problem Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage Date: 2001-08-02 08:49:39 PST I have been married for six years to a man who is proving to be a real disappointment. He is basically like a child inside. We met in college and he seemed to be a great catch. He was finishing studies an a chemical engineer, and had several good job prospects through his family. Tall, handsome, everything I could want. We married after two years of dating and I dropped out of college to take care of the house (sacrificing my career for him). Fast forward six years. He has the good job, makes a good salary. Even dresses well and understands when I need more clothes (I have SUCH the wardrobe!) Anyway the problem is that I have been wanting to have more of an active role in social life. Setting up parties and such. Well he has no problem with this but he has these hobbies and certain friends that I would not want to be in the house at these times, and he begins to insist on it. My husband got involved in playing Dungeons and Dragons about four years ago with some old college friends of his. Actually turns out that they used to get together for this thing years ago but weren’t doing it when we were dating (coincidence?). Its so childish and embarassing to see him focus his attention on “I pretend I’m an elf” instead of on ME. His WIFE. And these “friends” he gets together with every other week are real losers – fat, dress like slobs, have lazy bum jobs like janitors. One of them even scrubs toilets at a hospital! I try to tell him that these people are not at his station in life, and he laughs and makes a joke about how they are “typical gamers”. I mean he makes fun of these people himself and then he invites them into my house?!? I don’t want to have Frank the Toilet Scrubber invited to my parties with the neighbors. His co-workers and their wives are one thing, this is another. And the books! He has stacks and stacks of these stupid dragon books lying all over the place, so they can call him “Dungeon Master” or something. He tried to get me to play but it seemed so childish. And apparently the “game” isn’t even a game it is a lifestyle because it never ends. I learned this because I asked him when they were going to win and be done with it and he laughed again, said there is no way to “win”. So what is the point I asked him. And again he laughs at me. Well I am getting tired of it and I am getting tired of his stupid “gamer friends” and their unhealthy attitudes (eating potato chips and pizza all night every other Friday and they wonder why they have enourmous guts like animals). Some of these “friends” smell so bad I wonder if they ever shower. A couple of them work with my husband but they say they don’t talk about it at work, so when he comes home I get to listen to phone calls about “power sword this” and “magic spells that”. It’s so _childish_, like little boys, and I showed him the passage in the Bible about “when I became a MAN, I put CHILDISH THINGS aside” but he completely disregarded it. I feel that my husband is not living up to his responsibilities of keeping a proper home. I try to do him a good turn and improve his social life at work by having a dinner party and he goes and invites these slobs who will show up in ripped jeans and T-shirts with animals on them. This is not the household I want and I am thinking of giving him an ultimatum, the “gaming” goes along with the trash “gamer” “friends”, or _he_ goes (as I will _not_ give up this house and my sister’s husband, a divorce lawyer, assures me that I would get it easy because I gave up my career for him). I am just wondering what is the best course of action to take to get my husband out of this destructive lifestyle. Candace Brooks Hmm, lets see… he supports the entire household… he has a good job… he dresses well… he indulges her need for a new outfit every week… and tolerates her snotty attitude she badgers him about playing a game… she judges people based on their jobs/appearance she insists that he (read she) have a proper social life she dictates who he can hang out with and he’s the dissapointment? wow, what a catch she is… Isn’t it amazing how insane people never question their own sanity? I love this line… “I dropped out of college to take care of the house (sacrificing my career for him).” literal translation “I dropped out of college because I finally found someone who would support my lazy ass and I saw no reason to continue learning anything(I didn’t really want a career anyway).” I mean how much work is it to “Take care of the house”? ---
**Author:** ![theendisnear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@theendisnear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theendisnear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/2 "2001-08-18T20:32:15Z")
I loved this line: > [@](#): > > I try to tell him that > these people are not at his station in life What a stuck up bitch! ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/3 "2001-08-18T20:36:10Z")
So, where did this letter come from? And if you don’t know…save your emotions for a second, and don’t assume it is real. The Internet is full of things like this, designed to provoke outrage over something or another. See [http://www.snopes.com](http://www.snopes.com) for other ones like it. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/4 "2001-08-18T20:39:07Z")
That letter sounds really fake. Along the lines of the kid with a burlap sac for a body:) ---
**Author:** ![dentarthurdent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@dentarthurdent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dentarthurdent)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/5 "2001-08-18T20:41:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* > The Internet is full of things like this, designed to provoke outrage over something or another. > \*\* agreed. I’m not entirely sure of the origin, based on the header it came from the alt.support.marriage newsgroup. Either way, the attitude is a fairly prevalent one. ---
**Author:** ![Palmyra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/57b2e6/32.png) [@Palmyra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palmyra)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/6 "2001-08-18T20:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dentarthurdent \* > \*\*I mean how much work is it to “Take care of the house”? \*\* Well, if she’s actually taking care of it and doesn’t have a maid [and this list applies to both men and women]: everyday: feed the pets let pets out to pee and poo make breakfast fetch the paper if they have children: wake them up, feed them, make sure they get to school dressed and on time wash the dinner dishes/empty dishwasher from previous night reload if necessary water plants, if any neaten kitchen, den, bathrooms, whereever people hangout cooking dinner every other day: dust [knickknacks, tv, bookshelves, whatever] clean litterbox, if has one check dirty laundry hampers as necessary: vacuum any room with a rug: den, living room, bedrooms, hallways sweep and mop any room with harwood or tile: kitchen, laundry room, bathrooms, hallways, entryway, dining room laundry: separating, loading, monitering where applicable: handwashing delicate stuff, line drying same, ironing, taking to/picking up from dry cleaners checking food/cleaners/toiletpaper/detergetn supplies and going to the grocery store mowing the lawn trimming and hedges or bushes trimming dead branches in trees raking washing cars household repairs: squeaky hinges, broken tile, lightbulbs, broken switch, leaky faucet, clogged drains sorting and paying bills taking children [if any] to doctors/ dentists/ practices/ rehersals/ store for school supplies, clothes taking animals [if any] to vet for shots, flea bath and nail clipping check status of pool [if they have one]:chlorine level [adjust], leaves and twigs in traps [empty], leaves, twigs and gunk in the net on the sweeper [empty], presence of algae on the walls [scrub] I can guarantee that, excluding the doctor/dentist/vet trips and the children stuff [b/c i’m a big college girl now], everyone of the things on this list happens at least once a week in my house, often several times because my parents like a well-kept house. So shut-up about a house being an easy thing to take care of. ---
**Author:** ![dentarthurdent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@dentarthurdent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dentarthurdent)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/7 "2001-08-18T20:49:56Z")
ok, considering that I do most of those things myself(excepting kids and pets) and I work a full time job… It seems reasonable that two people could manage to do those things and both work(kids excepted, they were never mentioned in the letter). ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/8 "2001-08-18T21:47:14Z")
If this is real (which I doubt), does she not realize that the last thing everybody I’ve ever known who has worked in an office wants to do is socialize with the people in that office? Even if they’re nice people? She, of course, does not know this, because she did that 1950’s thing of dropping out of school because she got married. _seethe_ I’ll take him. My friends have always been the geeky outcast gamer types. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/9 "2001-08-18T22:09:42Z")
That post just rings fake to me. That doesn’t mean it can’t be true, but it seems wrong. She knows an awful lot of information about an activity that she wants nothing to do with. She gives no justification for why she wants what she wants, merely that she wants it. She intentionally tries to show her superficiality through her words and action. It doesn’t seem as if this type of a personality would be asking for help on an issue such as this from strangers. It’s hard to really describe fully why I don’t think this is real, but that’s just the overall feeling I got from the letter. Maybe it’s just the Jedi Force that flows through me. If it is real though, I’ll be happy to spray her with my magic missles in the hopes of frying her brand new wardrobe right off her body. ---
**Author:** ![lolagranola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ea5d25/32.png) [@lolagranola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lolagranola)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/10 "2001-08-18T23:15:29Z")
> [@](#): > > So shut-up about a house being an easy thing to take care of. I can’t! I do stay at home, looking after the house and the kids. Well, mostly the kids. Maybe I’m jaded by constant child care, but it seems odd that two adults would need one of them to stay at home and look after the house. What, is it going anywhere? Is he such a slob for the few hours that her husband is awake and home that it takes ALL DAY to clean up it? Most people I know manage kids, pets, a job each, and house care. Personally, I’ve spent most of the last two years being a full time student with four kids, including a breastfeeding infant. The house got along fine without me. The rest of it is just too stupid to even begin to get into. ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/11 "2001-08-19T00:50:59Z")
I’ll take him. Especially if he’s a good DM. Or a good ST for Mage. And I’ll like it. But I’ll have to keep my whole schooling/career thing for a bit. And yea, looking after a house is what you make of it. It can be done around other stuff if you want it too, but if you add in voluteer work, full time child care, and any work on the house (putting in that sylight you wanted, gardening/landscaping) it can be a full time position. Don’t knock effort on the part of any human being. When put in the proper light, anyone’s life’s work can look worthless. Eitehr way, this is a poor attitude. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/12 "2001-08-19T02:49:52Z")
I could see this being a real situation. Assuming it is for real: She seems to know nothing about D&D, or has picked up the notion that it is a frighteningly geeky/antisocial thing to be doing with one’s leisure time. Notice she quotes the Bible. If she comes from a Christian background, remember that a lot of Christians believe this type of activity promotes devil worship, yadda yadda. Also she seems to have the idea that he has deceived her by hiding his interest in it from her while they were courting, which could give someone the idea that he _knows_ it’s wrong or whatever. She seems to think only children play games, which is goofy enough by itself, but the bigger point is that she thought she was getting involved with a responsible adult, and now he is revealing a part of his life that does not fit in with that image. Anyone could be upset by that, I think. Also the socially immature fellow gamers are something that she never signed up for and can’t control. Yeah, there’s a certain snob factor here, but it’s one thing to have a hobby that no one else shares an interest in if you engage in it only outside the house (golf) or in private (reading books about the Civil War, having a model train set in the basement), but another thing to be bringing creepy, unwashed strangers into their home. We had a thread recently about gamers and personal hygiene; why, of all the kinds of people he could be pals with, does it have to be those people? And she says she has tried to tell him what is bothering her, and he laughs a little, in embarrassment possibly (reinforcing the idea that he’s doing something wrong), and then nothing changes. She’s trying to deal with it the best way she knows how, and it’s not working. Cue the tension! Basically the whole problem is about miscommunication and misunderstanding, obviously. The only parts that sound fairly fake to me are the parts about “he’s supposed to pay attention to _me_” (but if they’re newlyweds, I’m sure a lot of women want to have lots of time alone with their husbands, to reassure themselves that they are building a happy life together), and the business about wanting to help him with building social contacts/entertaining the boss, which sounds like it’s straight out of 1960s sitcoms, but what do I know? Maybe this stuff is still significant in conservative Christian circles, reinforcing the community they have among themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/13 "2001-08-19T04:08:09Z")
I checked on the google usenet archive, it’s definitely a troll, the headers were forged and no other messages from that username have ever appeared. But it’s a really good troll. It hit all the points where D&D nerds are the most insecure. Pushed all their buttons too. I betcha THIS thread gets at least another 40 responses. I am reminded of an incident that happened shortly after I moved to San Francisco. I was walking up Oak street and a young guy in ratty clothes was unloading a battered volkswagen. He was carrying several utility boxes, you know the kind, with dozens of little plastic drawers like you’d use to hold nails and screws. As he turned, the drawers all swung open, spewing dozens of tiny D&D figurines across the sidewalk, and being imbalanced, slipped from his grasp and bashed to the concrete. I watched as he surveyed the damage to his precious handpainted plastic toys, grabbed a few, then curled up into a fetal position and started crying. I left the scene, continuing on my way, but I often have wondered how long he lied there sobbing. Geez, some people REALLY need to get a life! ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Fortune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Commander\_Fortune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Fortune)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/14 "2001-08-19T10:04:07Z")
_If its real…_ She’s bitching about 1 Friday night **every other week**?! That’s ridiculous. I ,um, have a friend who games 3 nights a week. ---
**Author:** ![ryoushi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@ryoushi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryoushi)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/15 "2001-08-19T10:12:45Z")
I’m surprised noone’s brought up our beloved [Jack Chick](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp) tracts yet… ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/16 "2001-08-19T17:00:18Z")
Let me get this straight: She cleans toilets as part of her daily housekeeping duties. In fact, she dropped out of college in order to clean her own toilet. But she looks down her nose at hubby’s friends, one of whom actually GETS PAID to clean toilets? At least he’s paying his bills while he’s scrubbing porcelain. I think she’s intimidated by Mr. Paid to Scrub Toilets, and insecure if she’s threatened by someone who cleans toilets for a living. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that!) Another thing that bugs me: she is obviously so insecure, it hasn’t occurred to her that nothing, really, is holding her back from: - a social life, i.e. parties for the boss, etc. - going back to college and finishing her degree and/or - pursuing her own interests, career, etc. Certainly, if she had a bridge club, and her husband couldn’t stand the bridge ladies, she’s expect him to tolerate their presence in their house once a month or so. She thinks this is all about her, completely forgetting that there is another person, complete with feelings, in her relationship. I’m annoyed with women who think their entire identity is wrapped around their SO. These are people who wouldn’t dare consider going to a restaurant by themselves, or to a movie alone, or doing anything at all by themselves. (Disclaimer: I think it’s shallow of me to be critical of people who lack the self-confidence to go out into the world and grab whatever they want by the (insert favorite body part here). But the whining and never doing anything about one’s problems (except push the responsibility for one’s own happiness off on to someone else) gets pretty intolerable, for me, after a very short time. /disclaimer) That said, I think the OP sounds fake: classic (insert masculine interest)-Widow syndrome – that is, women who are too chicken to be themselves, by themselves. It’s sad, really. Even if the letter is bogus, there’s still people out there insecure enough to feel that way. Egad. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/17 "2001-08-20T02:14:09Z")
I remember several years ago hearing scare stories about kids becoming so obsessed with D&D that they killed themselves, went crazy, etc. That post sounds like a continuation of those stories. ---
**Author:** ![Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wonko_The_Sane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/18 "2001-08-20T02:40:56Z")
What I say… Snopesalicious! ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/19 "2001-08-20T05:15:04Z")
Heehee. It’s funny cause it’s not true. To me, this looks like a D&D fan decided to create the D&D Wife From Hell to get a rise out of the other guys. She’s so perfectly bad - snobby, pretentious, uptight and even Christian into the bargain. The husband is painted to be a saint - good job, kind, generous and good to his friends. He’s so obviously the hero of the piece - a “Geek King” if you will. You get a mental picture of the Geek King plodding along happily while his stressed, highly-strung, screaming harpie of a wife tries to suck up to anyone she thinks can do his career any good. I love it. It’s a great joke. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929/20 "2001-08-20T05:41:10Z")
It is well-written. Notice how she gets more emotional as she goes along, building up to the stuff about how she’s looking at her divorce options. She sounds like some kind of upper-middle-class, (possibly) Christian conservative “family values” type. You know what I mean. She’s very close to her mother (talks to her on the phone every day). She has two or three sisters or girlfriends who all know every single tiny detail of each other’s lives. She dreamed about getting married from the time she could walk and had every detail of the wedding planned out. She knew what kind of man she would marry, what kind of job and income he would have, what kind of house they would live in and where, how many kids they’d have and on and on. That’s why she wanted to quit school when she got married, so she could stay in her pretty house in her pretty neighborhood. She’s not stupid, just kind of…young. She’s been living this perfect, wholesome fantasy for so long that when reality intrudes in the form of her real-life husband, she can’t help but be disappointed. This troll should write comic novels. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-this-woman-seem-sane-to-you-long/76929.md?page=2)