# Does today's unanimous Senate approval of a permanent DST bill mean it's a fait accompli? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2022, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145 "2022-03-15T23:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/21 "2022-03-16T05:17:40Z")
They did this back in 74. It was creepy being in school in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/22 "2022-03-16T05:25:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That the senate passed it unanimously is a little shocking. Hard to think they’d ever 100% agree on something. They didn’t 100% agree, there just weren’t 1% who were informed and/or bothered enough to come to the chamber to _dis_agree, which would have paused it (maybe fatally). The minority whip, someone who’s probably supposed to know all of the business before the Senate, [didn’t know](https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1503800344735850509) it had passed until a reporter told him (though he supported it). The world’s greatest deliberative body in action, folks. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/23 "2022-03-16T05:51:38Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > They did this back in 74. It was creepy being in school in the dark. Yeah, it was highly unpopular and didn’t even last a whole year. But everyone is sure that _this time_ it’s going to be awesome! ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/24 "2022-03-16T12:00:47Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The earliest sunset is around Dec 10, about 11 days before the solstice. You’d think that would be symetrical with the latest sunrise. That is, the same number of days before as after. I expect Earth’s perigee (somewhere around Jan 4) causes the asymetry. If you look at some globes, they have that interesting “figure 8” diagram usually found in the middle of the Pacific ocean. This indicated the relative true position of the sun versus noon. Basically, Earth’s orbit is an ellipse 92 by 94 million miles. “Noon” would face the middle of the ellipse, but the sun is at one of the ellipse focal points, slightly off to the side. As a result, depending where the earth is in its orbit, the “straight up” points a bit before or after the sun’s position at 12PM. Figure 8 because the sun also wanders north and south due to the earth’s tilt. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/25 "2022-03-16T12:19:31Z")
I biked to HS in 1974 and doing that in the dark really sucked. Just wait for the first school kids to be creamed by a car in the dark and you’ll hear “what a stupid idea this was”. Seriously, do people have trouble when they go on vacation in a neighboring time zone? If not, then why is this an issue? If you want to fix this, make the transition day a Friday night, not a Saturday night. At least most people would have 2 days to get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/26 "2022-03-16T12:40:50Z")
I hate hate hate waking up before dawn. So I’m very unhappy about this. And i doubt my employer will be keen on letting me show up to work at 10 in the winter. I’m looking forward to seasonal affective disorder every winter if this actually happens. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/27 "2022-03-16T12:43:14Z")
I didn’t think it was possible for the Senate to unanimously vote for anything. Given that, I can’t imagine the House not voting for it, and I can’t imagine why the President would veto any bill passed with that kind of overwhelming vote. Even if he did, it looks like the veto would be easily overridden. That’s my long winded way of answering, “Yes.” LOL ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/28 "2022-03-16T13:13:48Z")
> [@Tabco](#): > > There was a piece on the radio here in Vancouver, WA recently that discussed this. Ski resorts were one industry that opposed it since it’d apparently force workers to perform some of their early morning duties in the dark. Why?? Ski resorts should be opening and closing based on when the conditions allow for skiing, not based on an arbitrary clock. Why cant they just open at the same time relative to the sun/one hour later? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/29 "2022-03-16T13:20:17Z")
Because people buy tickets for some time on the clock, and will be upset if their expectations are violated. Although it would be feasible to have a website with “opening time today”, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/30 "2022-03-16T13:22:44Z")
Sure but this isn’t springing up out of nowhere, we’d have months and up to a year of notice about DST rules changing. Just put up notices that say “due to DST changes after Date X resort opens at 9 instead of 8”. I didn’t mean on a day by day basis, but when setting the hours in the first place what should be considered are skiing conditions, not what time the clock shows - so getting rid of DST shouldn’t impact them one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/31 "2022-03-16T13:28:36Z")
I’ve never understood the objection “But kids would be going to school in the dark!”. Yeah, they already do. And I also don’t understand the reasoning behind shifting everything over one time zone (i.e., going to permanent DST rather than permanent standard time). Back when business and school hours became standardized, it was standard time, and people chose the hours that made most sense given that. If you want more daylight in the evening at the expense of the morning, then convince your employer to be open 8-4 instead of 9-5. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/32 "2022-03-16T13:47:42Z")
[Moderating] Oh, and the main thrust of this thread seems to be about speculating what Congress will do. That’s necessarily a matter of opinion at this point, so it’s a better fit for IMHO. Moving. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/33 "2022-03-16T13:57:36Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The earliest sunset is around Dec 10, about 11 days before the solstice. You’d think that would be symetrical with the latest sunrise. That is, the same number of days before as after. I expect Earth’s perigee (somewhere around Jan 4) causes the asymetry. An aside, but this is related to Earth’s tilt (~23 deg) and your latitude. Here’s a nifty [link](https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/equation-of-time.html) if you are interested. It’s rarely symmetric about the solstice. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/34 "2022-03-16T14:01:16Z")
We live four miles from the 49th Parallel, so in Summer the Sun will still be up until about 9:30 at night. Some people have jobs and have to get up early. Who wants to go to bed when the Sun is still out? Year-round DST is a stupid idea. If you’re going to keep one time, make it Standard time. Because, you know, it’s standard. At this longitude, we should be eight hours ahead of Greenwich, England. They tried year-round DST in 1974. Apparently, people didn’t like it. > **[The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the ’70s. People Hated It -...](https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/)** > > The sun rose at 8:27 AM on January 7, 1974. Children in the Washington area had left for school in the dark that morning, thanks to a new national experiment during a wrenching energy crisis: most of the US went to year-round daylight saving time... ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/35 "2022-03-16T14:09:29Z")
High school kids in Florida go to school in the dark _now_. I stepped on an armadillo on my way to the bus on my first day of American high school in 1996. That shit was terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/36 "2022-03-16T14:20:47Z")
It’s about time. (Heh.) Leave the damn clock alone and let businesses and other entities decide whether or not to adjust their hours to address seasonal daylight changes. 9-5 is a vanishing tradition anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/37 "2022-03-16T14:40:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Who wants to go to bed when the Sun is still out? Never had a 3rd shift job? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/38 "2022-03-16T14:57:33Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > That the senate passed it unanimously is a little shocking. Hard to think they’d ever 100% agree on something. > > They didn’t 100% agree, there just weren’t 1% who were informed and/or bothered enough to come to the chamber to _dis_ agree, which would have paused it (maybe fatally). The minority whip, someone who’s probably supposed to know all of the business before the Senate, [didn’t know](https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1503800344735850509) it had passed until a reporter told him (though he supported it). The world’s greatest deliberative body in action, folks. Yes, and to be clear, when something passes by unanimous consent, it doesn’t mean that every Senator voted yes one-by-one. It’s where they just do the “all opposed say nay”. No one opposed it. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > They tried year-round DST in 1974. Apparently, people didn’t like it. > > [The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the ’70s. People Hated It - Washingtonian](https://www.washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-70s-people-hated-it/) Two big things there: 1. They made the change right in January, the worst time possible. This bill basically makes it so after we go on DST next March, we never go back. 2. There’s a lot less kids walking and biking to school then there were in the 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/39 "2022-03-16T15:04:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I stepped on an armadillo on my way to the bus on my first day of American high school in 1996. That shit was terrifying. Did you apologize? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/40 "2022-03-16T15:05:02Z")
In 1974, my elementary school just adjusted the school day to start an hour later until the sun started rising early enough to go back to normal hours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145.md?page=3)