# Does today's unanimous Senate approval of a permanent DST bill mean it's a fait accompli? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2022, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145 "2022-03-15T23:52:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/41 "2022-03-16T15:08:30Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > my elementary school just adjusted the school day to start an hour later This. People and institutions that have specific needs can adjust THEIR hours. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/42 "2022-03-16T15:10:25Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > This. People and institutions that have specific needs can adjust THEIR hours To be fair, when it comes to schools, that can be a problem if both parents are working and need to work out transport to get their kids to school. Having to adjust their schedule in this way is… problematic. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/43 "2022-03-16T15:14:26Z")
I drove to work before sunrise every day for over 30 years. Yes, even in the summer time. Part of having a shift that started at 5am. The nice part was getting off work at 1:30 pm giving me the rest of the afternoon to get stuff done. A bad part was going to bed at 7:30pm meaning I rarely got to see many popular television programs. A year and a half into my retirement and I’m still adjusting. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/44 "2022-03-16T15:15:13Z")
If every school in a district changes their hours, then the places where students’ parents work will likely change theirs as well unless they want to exclude a huge chunk of the workforce as potential employees. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/45 "2022-03-16T15:27:50Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > In 1974, my elementary school just adjusted the school day to start an hour later until the sun started rising early enough to go back to normal hours. Maybe, as it gets toward winter, we should all decide on one specific day where every schedule is moved later by an hour. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/46 "2022-03-16T15:28:25Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > both parents are working and need to work out transport to get their kids to school. They’re saving an hour of childcare in the afternoon. Find a sitter to take charge of early morning childcare, or find a boss willing to let one parent come in late (and work late) for a few months. You talk as if it’s worth disrupting the entire society so no one has to experience the slightest inconvenience. Or ask the school to adjust their hours. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/47 "2022-03-16T15:31:48Z")
Those of you who attended [Camp Ramah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Ramah) may remember the camp’s unique approach to DST: refusing to observe it! From a recent handbook: > During the summer, on the first night of each session, Camp Ramah Darom sets its clocks to Eastern Standard Time. For example, when it is 12:00 noon in Atlanta (which is Eastern Daylight Savings Time–EDT), it is only 11:00am at Camp. On the last evening of each session the clocks are changed back to EDT. “Camp Time” allows younger campers an opportunity for programming on Saturday nights after Shabbat. In addition, the sun has an extra hour each morning to warm the pool and lake for swimming and dry dew off of the playing fields. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/48 "2022-03-16T15:36:09Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > I drove to work before sunrise every day for over 30 years. I’m well aware that people are able to drive in the dark. Morning rush hour in the dark for two months out of the year is a different beast entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/49 "2022-03-16T15:46:10Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Morning rush hour in the dark for two months out of the year is a different beast entirely. I did it for 12 months out of the year when I lived in Southern California where rush hour starts at 5:30 am. The brake lights are just easier to see. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/50 "2022-03-16T15:47:06Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Why in the world do so many people want the stopping of the time change to go only towards DST, not away from it? I suspect that a surprisingly large number of people don’t really understand DST, and think that it really gives them an extra hour of daylight. Personally, I’d be pissed off. Every spring, we lose an hour, and we have to wait until fall to get it back. If we switch to DST permanently, I’ll never, ever get that hour back, and I’ll be permanently an hour behind on my sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/51 "2022-03-16T15:49:41Z")
Another thought. This change might give people a sense of the seasons in places where the weather doesn’t often make it apparent. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/52 "2022-03-16T15:51:29Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > both parents are working and need to work out transport to get their kids to school. > > They’re saving an hour of childcare in the afternoon. Find a sitter to take charge of early morning childcare, or find a boss willing to let one parent come in late (and work late) for a few months. You talk as if it’s worth disrupting the entire society so no one has to experience the slightest inconvenience. Or ask the school to adjust their hours. All that is totally fine but where it becomes a headache for the parents and for their employers is when the schools change their hours to accomodate twice a year without the rest of society doing so as well, as a few posters proposed. I think that if we do away with DST schools should pick a time and stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/53 "2022-03-16T15:52:34Z")
The most telling statistic in the article is that before permanent DST was adopted, 79% of the public supported it, and three months later, only 49% supported it. Yesterday I predicted that we would make the switch to permanent DST for a while, and then people would start to hate it and we’d end up switching back. Based on what happened in 1973, I still think that’s the most likely outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/54 "2022-03-16T15:54:18Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > that’s the most likely outcome. If only there were a convenient way to bet on things like this… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/55 "2022-03-16T15:55:46Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I suspect that a surprisingly large number of people don’t really understand DST, and think that it really gives them an extra hour of daylight. It kinda DOES give me an extra hour of daylight, in that i have an extra hour of light during a time I actually care about (after work) at the cost of an hour of darkness while I’m at work under artificial light anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/56 "2022-03-16T17:31:51Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Morning rush hour in the dark for two months out of the year is a different beast entirely. Not really, no. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/57 "2022-03-16T17:51:11Z")
Was this bill introduced by a Republican or a Democrat? Because that will affect how large the howl is when everybody changes their minds after 4 months of permanent DST. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/58 "2022-03-16T18:04:14Z")
Well, it was unanimous approval, but just wait until a few school kids waiting for the school bus get run over in the winter morning darkness, then we will see where the fingers get pointed. But then we should start school later in the day anyway! It is better for the children, think of the children! When the children start getting out of school at 6pm and it screws with the parents schedules, and after school sports and other activities last until mid-night. Every well meaning action has unintended consequences. I can change my clocks a couple times each year. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/59 "2022-03-16T18:15:44Z")
Stupid question: If they go permanent-no-time-change, would there be any reason not to bump the time forward (or back) by 30 min instead of 60? You’d get a little bit of benefit on both ends of the day that way. Personally the time change doesn’t bother me at all, fall or spring. I prefer light in the mornings, but we get that in the summer anyway. I think we ought to stick to Standard Time, but since it’s all a man-made convention anyway why not just carve a little off each end, so to speak? (I guess it’d need to be a world wide change though, to be accurate, wouldn’t it … hrmph). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145/60 "2022-03-16T18:22:50Z")
> [@saje](#): > > If they go permanent-no-time-change, would there be any reason not to bump the time forward (or back) by 30 min instead of 60? You’d get a little bit of benefit on both ends of the day that way. There are time zones like that in India, Nepal, and Australia. The problem with doing it in the US is that our zones won’t line up with those in the rest of the Western Hemisphere. You would be entering a new time zone every time you crossed the Canadian or Mexican border. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-todays-unanimous-senate-approval-of-a-permanent-dst-bill-mean-its-a-fait-accompli/961145.md?page=4)