# Does Toto still have to die at the end of the Wizard of Oz? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [March 25, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496 "2014-03-25T01:50:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/21 "2014-03-26T15:04:41Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > In the book, Oz is a real place, and when Dorothy finally returns home, Uncle Henry & Aunti Em are in the middle of building a new house. Huh. I read the books as a kid but had forgotten that detail. I wonder why they changed that for the movie? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/22 "2014-03-26T15:17:20Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Dorothy grew up to be a famous singer/actress, had a lot of husbands ] One of whom was actually straight! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/23 "2014-03-26T15:27:57Z")
I believe Toto went to bless the rains, down in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/24 "2014-03-26T15:33:02Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > As for the movie, I’ve always imagined that Elvira got sucked up by the tornado and is a goner. I saw one fanwank that said Almira Gulch was the our world alias of the WWotE and the tornado was caused by her using the shoes to get back and forth between Oz and our world so when she got squished as the witch, that was the end of Gulch as well. It’s a bit clunky but I like the shape of it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/25 "2014-03-26T16:00:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Huh. I read the books as a kid but had forgotten that detail. I wonder why they changed that for the movie? Since Dorothy was just sleeping in bed, not nearly as much time had passed as in the books. It’s been less than a day since the tornado, as, otherwise, I’d expect that they’d call a doctor for a girl who wouldn’t wake up. And, as I said above, the dream aspect was added because the director was afraid that audiences wouldn’t otherwise be able to accept the fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/26 "2014-03-26T16:26:30Z")
My main problem with the film is that [Glinda is a manipulating psycho](http://www.cracked.com/article_18881_5-reasons-greatest-movie-villain-ever-good-witch.html). The whole scene in Munchkinland is her doing everything possible to get the WWW lethally mad at Dorothy and then sends her off into the wilderness without protection. “Hey, WWW, that girl totally killed your sister! And – oops – now she’s wearing those shoes you want, which can’t be removed while she’s alive (wink wink)! Ha ha - sucks to be you, bitch! But don’t worry, Dorothy - she can’t harm you while you’re in Munchkinland. Which is why you need to leave Munchkinland immediately. Byeeeee!” ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/27 "2014-03-26T16:58:53Z")
Hah, great point **Gyrate**! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/28 "2014-03-26T18:29:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > My main problem with the film is that [Glinda is a manipulating psycho](http://www.cracked.com/article_18881_5-reasons-greatest-movie-villain-ever-good-witch.html). The whole scene in Munchkinland is her doing everything possible to get the WWW lethally mad at Dorothy and then sends her off into the wilderness without protection. > > “Hey, WWW, that girl totally killed your sister! And – oops – now she’s wearing those shoes you want, which can’t be removed while she’s alive (wink wink)! Ha ha - sucks to be you, bitch! But don’t worry, Dorothy - she can’t harm you while you’re in Munchkinland. Which is why you need to leave Munchkinland immediately. Byeeeee!” So what? Movie!Glinda is only a manifestation of Dorothy’s subconscious. She IS Dorothy, or an aspect of her. Nothing she does is ultimately contrary to Dorothy’s innermost desires. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/29 "2014-03-26T18:43:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “Hey, WWW, that girl totally killed your sister! And – oops – now she’s wearing those shoes you want, which can’t be removed while she’s alive (wink wink)! Ha ha - sucks to be you, bitch! But don’t worry, Dorothy - she can’t harm you while you’re in Munchkinland. Which is why you need to leave Munchkinland immediately. Byeeeee!” It’s stuff like this and the famous “Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer” thread that make The Dope the _Best Site on the Whole Internet!_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/30 "2014-03-26T18:56:38Z")
What about Hansel and Gretel? When they got home again, where was the evil stepmother who drove them away in the first place? She was gone, without further explanation. Why? Because she was the witch. It’s not stated, but it’s heavily implied. TWoO implies the same thing, even more heavily, because they had _the same actress playing both roles_. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/31 "2014-03-26T19:03:34Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > My main problem with the film is that [Glinda is a manipulating psycho](http://www.cracked.com/article_18881_5-reasons-greatest-movie-villain-ever-good-witch.html). The whole scene in Munchkinland is her doing everything possible to get the WWW lethally mad at Dorothy and then sends her off into the wilderness without protection. > > “Hey, WWW, that girl totally killed your sister! And – oops – now she’s wearing those shoes you want, which can’t be removed while she’s alive (wink wink)! Ha ha - sucks to be you, bitch! But don’t worry, Dorothy - she can’t harm you while you’re in Munchkinland. Which is why you need to leave Munchkinland immediately. Byeeeee!” You are forgetting Glinda gave Dorothy a kiss. What more do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Walshy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Walshy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walshy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/32 "2022-07-15T14:53:43Z")
I’ve seen this movie my whole life and only now in my 50’s, just wondered if Toto still had to die at the end. Not sure why it only now dawned on me but I googled it and here I am. I’d like to think the mean lady (forgot her name) was taken out in the tornado. And no you didn’t miss anything that would make you look silly. You have a very valid point. I’d love to see your take on it. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Walshy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Walshy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walshy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/33 "2022-07-15T14:55:19Z")
Hahaha I never thought of it that way. Hilarious yet sickeningly true. Lol ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/34 "2022-07-15T17:01:52Z")
Missed this thread its first time round. I’d assume that in the aftermath of a tornado destroying parts of the community following through on a dog warrant would get pretty much forgotten about. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/35 "2022-07-15T17:10:31Z")
Yeah it’s pretty much just like the one guy who got shot in the middle of a daytime street on 9/11, it was never solved because they had much more pressing matters. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/36 "2022-07-15T17:20:57Z")
Never underestimate the determination of a government official with a stick up their ass. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/37 "2022-07-15T17:55:36Z")
Well, Toto being dead would explain why Dorothy is running around with a chicken in the next movie. Fickle child. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/38 "2022-07-15T18:32:54Z")
Terry/Toto had a lengthy career, though she is uncredited in most of her films: > **[Terry - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1206094/?ref_=rvi_nm)** > > Terry. Actress: The Wizard of Oz. Without question, the most known dog in movie history. Many dogs tried to eclipse Toto's success, most recently, The Men In Black dog. Most don't know that Toto has an autobiography that's available in most stores.... As the cause of all the trouble in the film, Toto never really got much sympathy from me. Aside from popping out of the basket and being cute, and later revealing the ”wizard,” it seemed like the role itself was not terribly demanding. In fact, I’ve always thought Toto’s performance was a bit forced (like Garland’s) and overrated, especially compared to his now-forgotten contemporary, Skipper the Dog. The latter’s performance in _The Monster and the Girl_ (1941) in the role of “Skipper” is far more complex and impressive. As the dog of the brother of a woman lured into prostitution who was framed for murder and executed before his brain was transplanted into a gorilla, Skipper recognizes his former, now-hirsute master and helps him with his revenge. With nary a false note or overacting, Skipper emotes instantly-recognizable emotions and motives remarkable for a canine thespian. Skipper the Dog’s career may have lasted only three movies, but in that one performance alone, most of the competition was left behind (except, of course, for Lassie… and if we include non-live action dogs, Snowy). ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/39 "2022-07-15T21:36:10Z")
A modest proposal: Ms Gulch’s Ozian analog is the Witch of the West, not the Witch of the East. Gulch’s house was untouched by the tornado. In the aftermath, her neighbors asked for help. She tried to turn them away. An angry mob drowned her in a cattle tank. That corresponds to the time Dorothy was throwing a bucket of water on the Witch. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496/40 "2022-07-15T22:11:31Z")
In the movie, the Wicked Witch of the West has a name, you know… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-toto-still-have-to-die-at-the-end-of-the-wizard-of-oz/684496.md?page=3)