# Does Trump want to undermine the role of the press? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 19, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796 "2018-11-19T15:21:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/121 "2018-11-21T09:28:28Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This post makes me question if you know what the role of the press is in a free society. Do you? The press is not a Fourth Branch of government. They report the news. They do not have a right to interrogate the President in order to get news. They certainly do not have the right to call the President a liar in the White House at an event that he has no obligation to attend or even hold, nor does the role of the press in a free society encompass the desire of a single reporter to make a name for himself by grandstanding while fifty others are arguably waiting their turn to ask pertinent questions. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/122 "2018-11-21T09:40:22Z")
Does it not seriously give you pause that this is the first time an administration decided to spell out how to kick reporters from the briefings? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/123 "2018-11-21T10:21:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Does it not seriously give you pause that this is the first time an administration decided to spell out how to kick reporters from the briefings? There was no need spell out basic societal rules prior to Jim Acosta and his irrational hatred for the President, coupled with a judge’s mandate that he cannot be barred since there were not posted rules on the subject. Many reporters have disagreed with other presidents and have asked tough, pointed, and sometimes unfair questions. I do not ever recall a reporter implying that the President was a liar, continued asking questions after being told to hand over the microphone, and all of this coming after the same reporter has done so over and over again. For some on the left to use language like Trump is stifling the press and lining them up against a wall simply by asking for decorum borders on the absurd. People acting out forces a person to post rules. What happens if at the next press conference Acosta starts waiving his dick around? A federal judge then says you cannot bar him for that because he wasn’t given notice of the rule. Whose fault would it be if the White House had to then have a written rule about no reporter dick waving at press conferences? Acosta’s or Trump’s? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/124 "2018-11-21T10:50:15Z")
It’s not just that Trump is undermining the role of the press - what’s even more dangerous is that he’s trying communicate to people on a daily basis that facts don’t matter. And if facts don’t matter, if truth doesn’t really exist (or if the truth can’t be known), then there’s no need for a free press - because information and truth itself aren’t of use to us. It all goes hand-in-hand with his authoritarian tendencies. The message of an autocrat is “Listen up, people. You guys elected me to fix all your problems, right? Well I can fix it all for ya, but we gotta get rid of these stupid little rules (that you call checks and balances, liberties and civil rights), and you just gotta trust me on this one.” And by ‘trust me’, it necessarily request blind trust, loyalty and obedience. If you want an example of Trump’s treatment of truth and information, look at his statement on Kashoggi. > [@](#): > > “It could very well be that the crown prince had knowledge of this tragic event — **maybe he did and maybe he didn’t**!” Authoritarians of the modern age don’t necessarily try to hide the facts anymore; they instead try to downplay their importance. Modern autocracy doesn’t begin with tanks rolling into town; it begins most likely with consent of the people in a democratic society. That consent begins with taking things that were once outrageous, and conditioning people to accept them so that they’re not so outrageous anymore. People get used to outrage - outrage becomes normal. If he succeeds in conditioning people to accept outrage, then we don’t need a free press. We don’t need a Jim Acosta or anyone covering the White House because we become desensitized to the truth gap. If we can accept that truth doesn’t matter, if we can accept that certain democratic values don’t matter, we can very, very easily accept the abolition of a free press. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/125 "2018-11-21T11:02:09Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s not just that Trump is undermining the role of the press - what’s even more dangerous is that he’s trying communicate to people on a daily basis that facts don’t matter. And if facts don’t matter, if truth doesn’t really exist (or if the truth can’t be known), then there’s no need for a free press - because information and truth itself aren’t of use to us. It all goes hand-in-hand with his authoritarian tendencies. > > The message of an autocrat is “Listen up, people. You guys elected me to fix all your problems, right? Well I can fix it all for ya, but we gotta get rid of these stupid little rules (that you call checks and balances, liberties and civil rights), and you just gotta trust me on this one.” And by ‘trust me’, it necessarily request blind trust, loyalty and obedience. > > If you want an example of Trump’s treatment of truth and information, look at his statement on Kashoggi. > > Authoritarians of the modern age don’t necessarily try to hide the facts anymore; they instead try to downplay their importance. Modern autocracy doesn’t begin with tanks rolling into town; it begins most likely with consent of the people in a democratic society. That consent begins with taking things that were once outrageous, and conditioning people to accept them so that they’re not so outrageous anymore. People get used to outrage - outrage becomes normal. If he succeeds in conditioning people to accept outrage, then we don’t need a free press. We don’t need a Jim Acosta or anyone covering the White House because we become desensitized to the truth gap. If we can accept that truth doesn’t matter, if we can accept that certain democratic values don’t matter, we can very, very easily accept the abolition of a free press. How does any of this suggest a press that is not free? Every reporter in the country is free to take that statement you quoted from Trump and call it a filthy disgusting lie. Many have already done so. Trump is also free to call those reporters liars and political hacks and “fake news” and those reporters and others can respond. What you are not entitled to do is walk into the White House and call the President (any President) a filthy, disgusting liar. All Trump has done is verbally fire back at his critics in the media in a way no recent president has done. To equate that with the dismantling of the free press is unsupported. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/126 "2018-11-21T12:26:09Z")
And there we have it, folks: Either nothing bad is happening at the White House press briefings, or the press is at fault for whatever happens to them…or both! “Nothing is happening here when it comes to the press, and even if it is they deserve it”. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/127 "2018-11-21T13:16:17Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > There was no need spell out basic societal rules prior to Jim Acosta and his irrational hatred for the President, coupled with a judge’s mandate that he cannot be barred since there were not posted rules on the subject. Acosta may hate Trump, but it certainly isn’t irrational. Trump is loathsome both personally and as a president. There are innumerable reasons to hate and loathe Trump. Anybody who doesn’t loathe Trump is being far more irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/128 "2018-11-21T13:29:38Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What you are not entitled to do is walk into the White House and call the President (any President) a filthy, disgusting liar. What does it take to make you understand that this never happened? This is as truthful as saying that Acosta murdered the President. It’s a statement that reflects Trump’s totally deranged view of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/129 "2018-11-21T14:45:58Z")
Of course the press has the right to interrogate the President! This is America. _Everyone_ has the right to interrogate the President. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/130 "2018-11-21T17:46:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Does it not seriously give you pause that this is the first time an administration decided to spell out how to kick reporters from the briefings? While that’s certainly one way of looking at more definitive rules for Presidential press conferences. New rules will allow more reporters to ask questions that are important to them, and their news agencies. A Presidential press conference is supposed to be an opportunity for ALL reporters to ask the President a question. It’s not supposed to be the Obnoxious Acosta Show. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/131 "2018-11-21T17:52:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course the press has the right to interrogate the President! This is America. _Everyone_ has the right to interrogate the President. No, that “right” doesn’t exist. You can’t force anyone to sit thru an interview with you. You can ask them if they are willing to be interviewed. They might say no. What will you do then? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/132 "2018-11-21T17:59:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > … A Presidential press conference is supposed to be an opportunity for ALL reporters to ask the President a question. … Cite? And I hope the reporters who do ask questions never let Trump forget for whom he works. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/133 "2018-11-21T18:06:19Z")
And I use that term “works” interchangeably with “plays golf and watches tv.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/134 "2018-11-21T18:09:14Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > A Presidential press conference is supposed to be an opportunity for ALL reporters to ask the President a question. So when Trump won’t call on certain reporters during press conferences, he’s engaged in some type of wrongdoing? By your logic, he is. And thank you. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/135 "2018-11-21T18:23:55Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > While that’s certainly one way of looking at more definitive rules for Presidential press conferences. New rules will allow more reporters to ask questions that are important to them, and their news agencies. A Presidential press conference is supposed to be an opportunity for ALL reporters to ask the President a question. It’s not supposed to be the Obnoxious Acosta Show. And yet, every other administration had managed without codified guidelines. Is it your opinion that Acosta is the first obnoxious member of the White house press corps? Or is Trump exhibiting some wisdom other presidents lacked? ---
**Author:** ![ohiomstr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/82dd89/32.png) [@ohiomstr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ohiomstr2)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/136 "2018-11-21T18:36:08Z")
I have not checked these cites for verasity. A few minutes of incantations before the Great and Powerful Google reveals some examples of Presidential discomfort with the press. [https://www.history.com/news/presidents-relationship-with-press](https://www.history.com/news/presidents-relationship-with-press) > **[Presidents vs. the press: What came before Trump's 'running war' with the media](https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2017/02/25/presidents-vs-the-press-what-came-before-trumps-running-war-with-the-media/)** > > During his first full day in office, President Donald Trump announced he had a “running war” with the media, called journalists “among the most dishonest human beings on earth,” and \[…\] [https://www.alternet.org/culture/dirtiest-presidential-campaign-history-might-surprise-you](https://www.alternet.org/culture/dirtiest-presidential-campaign-history-might-surprise-you) > **[Barack Obama’s press freedom legacy](https://www.cjr.org/criticism/barack_obamas_press_freedom_legacy.php)** > > President Obama took office in 2009 promising to make his administration the most transparent in American history. New York Times national security correspondent David Sanger, for one, says he’s failed. “This is the most closed, control freak... > **[Press Attacks during the Administration of George Washington](https://brewminate.com/press-attacks-during-the-administration-of-george-washington/)** > > At the time of his inauguration, George Washington was described in almost universally glorified terms by the national presses. However, by the end of the President’s first term, hostile news… > **[Founding Fathers' dirty campaign - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/22/mf.campaign.slurs.slogans/)** > > Negative campaigning in America was sired by two lifelong friends, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Back in 1776, the dynamic duo combined powers to help claim America's independence, and they had nothing but love and respect for one another. But by... > **[Abraham Lincoln was the first president to make use of electronic mass media](https://www.bnd.com/news/local/article216145375.html)** > > Editor’s note: The weekly Illinois Bicentennial series is brought to you by the Illinois Associated Press Media Editors and Illinois Press Association. More than 20 newspapers are creating stories about the state’s history, places and key moments in... > **[How Teddy Roosevelt Invented Spin](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/how-teddy-roosevelt-invented-spin/426699/)** > > He used public opinion, the press, leaks to Congress, and Upton Sinclair to reform unconscionable industries, like the meatpackers. He is certainly very good at using disinformation in attempting to dismiss criticism. I seem to recall that this behavior was reported on before he entered politics (no, I don’t have a cite). The point is that while I have no doubt that Mr. Trump’s relationship with the press will get it’s own wiki, he is hardly the first politician to have issues with reporters and editors. History is so much fun! ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/137 "2018-11-21T19:16:22Z")
While it’s true that the president is under no obligation to attend press conferences, it’s also true that the media is under no obligation to cover them. What would happen if, to protest the behavior cited in post #76 – where Trump responded to a perfectly legitimate question with a nasty personal attack on the reporter – reporters simply didn’t show up at future conferences? Sure, that would let Fox News briefly bask in its status as the only network covering the president, but how much of real import comes out of these conferences anyway? And how long before Trump started to suffer from the only thing he truly fears – being ignored? Meanwhile, the genuine news networks could focus on congresspeople and others who actually share meaningful information about government actions and policies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/138 "2018-11-21T19:31:52Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > What would happen if, to protest the behavior cited in post #76 – where Trump responded to a perfectly legitimate question with a nasty personal attack on the reporter – reporters simply didn’t show up at future conferences? > > Sure, that would let Fox News briefly bask in its status as the only network covering the president, but how much of real import comes out of these conferences anyway? And how long before Trump started to suffer from the only thing he truly fears – being ignored? > > Meanwhile, the genuine news networks could focus on congresspeople and others who actually share meaningful information about government actions and policies. What would happen is that the room would be filled with Fox and quite a few others feeding Trump questions that boost his ego, and all the rest would be called Fake Media That Refuses To Report The News…and the label would stick. A boycott where the workers can be immediately replaced cannot be effective. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/139 "2018-11-21T19:48:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What would happen is that the room would be filled with Fox and quite a few others feeding Trump questions that boost his ego, and all the rest would be called Fake Media That Refuses To Report The News…and the label would stick. A boycott where the workers can be immediately replaced cannot be effective. Yes, that would happen. But the 60-70% of Americans who already dismiss Fox News as nothing but a Trump mouthpiece would completely ignore what came out of these conferences. They’d be reduced to irrelevant insider pep rallies and lose all significance. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796/140 "2018-11-21T19:57:31Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Yes, that would happen. But the 60-70% of Americans who already dismiss Fox News as nothing but a Trump mouthpiece would completely ignore what came out of these conferences. They’d be reduced to irrelevant insider pep rallies and lose all significance. This approach is how Fox News got to where they are today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trump-want-to-undermine-the-role-of-the-press/824796.md?page=8)