# Does Trump's pardon of Arpaio really stand out from past pardons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026 "2017-08-29T14:14:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/61 "2017-08-29T17:10:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > He also [stood up for a pro-Trump protester at a Dem rally](http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-obama-idUSKBN12Z2MU). Yes, Obama only occasionally said mean and nasty things. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/62 "2017-08-29T17:11:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Isn’t it entirely reasonable to posit that actions of Bull Connor and his ilk (which used to be very common, if on a smaller scale than Connor’s actions) greatly endangered police safety in the long term by massively increasing distrust of police in many communities? Yes, it’s reasonable. There are probably reasonable counter-arguments as well, but I’m not particularly married to one position or the other. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/63 "2017-08-29T17:11:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > My understanding is that part of what he is being pardoned for is contempt of court. This is being seen as a signal to anyone that the Judicial system will be subpoenaing that the courts have no power to compel anyone to testify against Trump or his family/associates. It’s saying that he considers the courts to be powerless and he will pardon anyone that gets charged with contempt of court so ignore any forthcoming subpeoenas. > > It is a direct attack on the judicial system and the rule of law. Its a dictator move. > > I haven’t looked too deeply into this myself and am just going by analysis I’ve heard though. I doubt it. Arpaio was a personal friend of Trump’s, an early supporter and someone who has been unflaggingly loyal. All of those traits are what Trump values, so I don’t think we need to hypothesis him playing 9-Dimensional chess (or even 2-Dimensional chess) here. Plus, anyone thinking that they can trust Trump to not throw them under the bus if Trump needs to save his own ass is a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/64 "2017-08-29T17:19:02Z")
I think Trump is actually playing one-dimensional chess. The pieces all move as they normally do, except that it’s played on a 1x8 board, and each side has a king with a pawn in front of it. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/65 "2017-08-29T17:28:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I doubt it. Arpaio was a personal friend of Trump’s, an early supporter and someone who has been unflaggingly loyal. All of those traits are what Trump values, so I don’t think we need to hypothesis him playing 9-Dimensional chess (or even 2-Dimensional chess) here. Plus, anyone thinking that they can trust Trump to not throw them under the bus if Trump needs to save his own ass is a fool. I don’t think it requires any dimension of chess (maybe connect 4) for him to feel that he can just overrule any judge he wants to, and whether he’s intentionally sending that message to anyone facing a possible subpoena from Mueller, the message is getting received I’m quite sure. Also, he wouldn’t need to throw anyone under the bus to protect himself if he can just preemptively pardon anyone facing pressure from the FBI. He doesn’t feel that the judicial branch has any power when it comes to himself. This is just another way he’s asserting this. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/66 "2017-08-29T17:34:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The IACP is only one manifestation of “police leadership”. Sheriffs are another, one that leans pretty far to the right in my experience. Statewide police organizations and leadership tend to be to the right of municipal police chiefs as well. None of that’s terribly surprising. Big cities lean Dem, they tend to have Dem mayors, who appoint left-leaning police chiefs. Sheriffs cover counties and there seem to be more rural counties than urban ones. Statewide police organizations have the blue cities power watered down a bit by the more rural (and often redder) areas of the state. Must be those darn _cosmopolitan_ values getting in the way of right minded police thinking. 😉 > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Any comment on the leftists that chanted “What do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want them? Now!” or “Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon”? Or when Antifa was throwing bottles of urine at the police? Is that ‘working hard to improve police/community relations’ or more of an ‘existing systemic problem’? Lock 'em up! I do not support indiscriminate destructive (anti-social) activism. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I originally said “The side that likes cops …”. Of course there are some leftists that like cops (and some that are cops themselves), and some conservatives that don’t particularly (I count myself among the latter). Would it ease your concerns if I amended that to say “the side that likes cops _more_”? It would. Even better if you said “the side that leans more authoritarian”. But I won’t hold my breath. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/67 "2017-08-29T17:36:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I doubt it. Arpaio was a personal friend of Trump’s, an early supporter and someone who has been unflaggingly loyal. All of those traits are what Trump values, so I don’t think we need to hypothesis him playing 9-Dimensional chess (or even 2-Dimensional chess) here. Plus, anyone thinking that they can trust Trump to not throw them under the bus if Trump needs to save his own ass is a fool. Here one should not forget also what values Arpaio had/has: > **[Wait, Do People Actually Know Just How Evil This Man Is? | Current Affairs](https://static.currentaffairs.org/2017/08/wait-do-people-actually-know-just-how-evil-this-man-is)** > > \Joe Arpaio’s reign was two decades of intimidation, cruelty, and abuses of power… \ > [@](#): > > But none of these perspectives actually capture the full truth about Joe Arpaio. And I am worried that even those who detest Trump and are appalled by this pardon do not entirely appreciate the depth of Arpaio’s evil, or understand quite how indefensible what Donald Trump just has done is. Frankly I think even Trump may not fully realize the extent of the wrongdoing that he has just signaled his approval of. And I think it’s very important to be clear: the things Joe Arpaio is nationally infamous for, the immigration crackdown and the tent city, these are only the beginning. > > The word “racist” isn’t enough. The word “abusive” isn’t enough. Joe Arpaio’s actions over the course of his time in office were monstrous and sickening. As Arpaio’s officers were harassing, detaining, and beating citizens and non-citizens alike, with jail employees routinely calling inmates “wetbacks” or leaving them to die on the floor, Arpaio let hundreds of serious sexual abuse cases go uninvestigated, in one case resulting in a child being continually raped. He was not just a “tough” sheriff, but a cruel and incompetent one, faking clearance reports for serious crimes while abusing the power of his office to arrest and intimidate journalists, judges, and county officials. Some of Arpaio’s acts bordered on the psychopathic: in a deranged re-election plot, Arpaio oversaw a scheme to pay someone to attempt to assassinate him, even supplying the man with bomb-making materials, so that he could entrap the fake “assassin” and send him to prison, ruining the hapless man’s life. Arpaio treated the Constitution with contempt, inflicting what the Mayor of Phoenix called a “reign of terror” upon the city’s Latino community. Anybody with a hint of a conscience should be revolted by both Arpaio’s record and Trump’s pardon. And what Arpaio did with the free speech and privacy of others is also sickening: > **[Joe Arpaio Loses: New Times Co-Founders Win $3.75 Million Settlement for 2007...](https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaio-loses-new-times-co-founders-win-375-million-settlement-for-2007-false-arrests-6651491)** > > The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors this afternoon voted unanimously to approve a $3.75 million settlement for New Times' co-founders, whose false arrests in 2007 were orchestrated by Sheriff Joe Arpaio.Michael Lacey and Jim Larkin were taken... > [@](#): > > After Andrew Thomas took office as Maricopa County Attorney, Arpaio requested charges against New Times for revealing his home address, based on an arcane state statute that bars publishing such information on the Internet if there’s a “timely threat” to an officer of the law. > > Because Arpaio waited 10 months to call for an investigation, a County Attorney’s Office panel declined to prosecute, since no threat had presented itself. The Pinal County Attorney’s Office later also declined to prosecute, citing lack of evidence and First Amendment implications. > > So 2 1/2 years after New Times published the sheriff’s address, Arpaio and Thomas collaborated to appoint Phoenix attorney Dennis Wilenchik as a “special prosecutor” to go after the paper. > > He issued grand jury subpoenas for the notes, records, and sources of the paper’s reporters and editors for all Arpaio-related stories over a broad period of time, as well as for the IP addresses of New Times’ readers of such stories. > [@](#): > > Arpaio’s deputies arrested them the night the story was published on charges of violating grand jury secrecy - alleged misdemeanor violations that normally don’t spark nighttime arrests at suspects’ homes. > > The next day, after widespread public outrage, Thomas announced that Wilenchik was dismissed as special prosecutor and that the investigation was over. Judge Baca later declared that Wilenchik’s grand jury subpoenas were invalid, since he’d issued them without notice or approval from a grand jury or from the court. > > Arpaio and Wilenchik eventually sought immunity from Lacey and Larkin’s lawsuit, but that didn’t happen, leading to today’s settlement. Thomas escaped potential liability because of protection his county attorney post afforded him when the episode occurred. > > “Unlike most of Arpaio’s victims, we had the financial wherewithal to defend ourselves in court, and we were able to speak through the newspaper,” Lacey and Larkin say in a statement. “But the vulnerable and impoverished victims of Arpaio’s ongoing abusive practices have neither the money nor the voice to fight back.” > > The co-founders announced that they will use the settlement proceeds to “help those who fight the good fight against government actors who attack the most vulnerable among us.” Included in this list of recipient organizations are the Arizona ACLU, the Florence Project, and Puente. A contribution also will be made to the Electronic Frontier Foundation to help protect Internet free speech. “Show me your friends, and I’ll tell you who you are"… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/68 "2017-08-29T17:41:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Must be those darn _cosmopolitan_ values getting in the way of right minded police thinking. 😉 We prefer the phrase “[New York values](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM6qRl3dSME)” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/69 "2017-08-29T17:52:00Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I don’t think it requires any dimension of chess (maybe connect 4) for him to feel that he can just overrule any judge he wants to, and whether he’s intentionally sending that message to anyone facing a possible subpoena from Mueller, the message is getting received I’m quite sure. Well, I’m quite sure it isn’t being received, so where does that leave us? > [@](#): > > Also, he wouldn’t need to throw anyone under the bus to protect himself if he can just preemptively pardon anyone facing pressure from the FBI. We don’t know the details of what the investigation is going to uncover, so you don’t know who might or might not need to get thrown under the bus. > [@](#): > > He doesn’t feel that the judicial branch has any power when it comes to himself. This is just another way he’s asserting this. Agreed. But this is all about him and loyalty to him, not about anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/70 "2017-08-29T17:52:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes, Obama only occasionally said mean and nasty things. Obama never said anything comparable to repeat-birtherism, saying a judge can’t do his job due to his ethnicity, chanting “lock her up” (and associated threats to his political opponent), saying that those protesting against white supremacism are comparable to those protesting in favor, or much, much more. This is not a reasonable or credible comparison. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/71 "2017-08-29T17:55:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The side that likes cops won the election. The side that likes cops\* that stomp on the Constitutional rights of black and brown people\* won the election. FTFY. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/72 "2017-08-29T18:05:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Any comment on the leftists that chanted “What do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want them? Now!” or “Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon”? Or when Antifa was throwing bottles of urine at the police? I’m against all that. But that catalogue of wrongs is trivial compared to[the abuses that Joe Arpaio, in his official capacity, committed against the people he was given power over.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/phoenix-new-times-sheriff-joe-arpaio_us_59a1787de4b06d67e337ea8a) Doing bothsidesism here is like pretending you weigh the same as a duck. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/73 "2017-08-29T18:08:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think it’s partisan blinders that makes it hard for me to see how abiding by the law shows an utter disregard for it. The presidential ability to pardon is clearly and obviously a way to ‘poke a hole’ in the judicial branch - eradicating its power to enact its one role. Consider a thought experiment - every morning Trump gets on TV (or twitter, I suppose) and announces, “I pardon everybody for everything!” If he did this he would effectively have shut down the federal courts - they would have no power to prosecute anyone anymore. So yeah, a pardon very explicitly is the president removing the power of the courts. And it’s explicitly designed to do that. Why did the founders write it in? I’m no mind reader of old dead guys, but it seems to me that there are precious few checks on the court system from the other branches, so this was probably meant to be one of them. But it’s an _absurdly powerful_ check, so naturally they limited the executive branches ability to use it as much as possible - to a single man, presumed to be the best among us. Of course now we have a senile toddler in that seat, so all bets are off. The founders handed him a judicial nuke, and he’s figured out how to push the button. This doesn’t mean that he’s going to start pressing it willy-nilly to support his criminal cohorts, of course - but it wouldn’t exactly surprise me if he did. He has the power to, after all. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/74 "2017-08-29T18:10:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Obama never said anything comparable to repeat-birtherism, saying a judge can’t do his job due to his ethnicity, chanting “lock her up” (and associated threats to his political opponent), saying that those protesting against white supremacism are comparable to those protesting in favor, or much, much more. > > This is not a reasonable or credible comparison. I never claimed Obama did any of those things. I was responding to a post (#51) that specifically asked for examples Obama “where he encouraged his own followers to punch people he didn’t like.” He didn’t say _exactly_ that, but there were some pretty ugly lines from him that were similar in tone. I offered those up for **Gyrate** to review. **QuickSilver** offered up a positive example from Obama, and I agreed and said “Yes, Obama only occasionally said mean and nasty things.” That brings us to your reply that I quoted above. I was being sincere in my response to QuickSilver. Obama had various flaws, but he was certainly more articulate than the president that proceeded or followed him, and the cases of him resorting to ugly rhetoric were thankfully relatively few and far between. It’s one of the things I generally liked about Obama, even if I’m also aware of times he didn’t live up to that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/75 "2017-08-29T18:13:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m against all that. But that catalogue of wrongs is trivial compared to[the abuses that Joe Arpaio, in his official capacity, committed against the people he was given power over.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/phoenix-new-times-sheriff-joe-arpaio_us_59a1787de4b06d67e337ea8a) Doing bothsidesism here is like pretending you weigh the same as a duck. I wasn’t trying to equate Arpaio with #BLM or Antifa. It was a specific response to a post (#53) that questioned whether “the left” likes cops or not. They’re obviously not monolithic on the matter, but I pointed out some examples and times when it was pretty obvious they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/76 "2017-08-29T18:14:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I never claimed Obama did any of those things. I was responding to a post (#51) that specifically asked for examples Obama “where he encouraged his own followers to punch people he didn’t like.” He didn’t say _exactly_ that, but there were some pretty ugly lines from him that were similar in tone. I offered those up for **Gyrate** to review. **QuickSilver** offered up a positive example from Obama, and I agreed and said “Yes, Obama only occasionally said mean and nasty things.” That brings us to your reply that I quoted above. I was being sincere in my response to QuickSilver. Obama had various flaws, but he was certainly more articulate than the president that proceeded or followed him, and the cases of him resorting to ugly rhetoric were thankfully relatively few and far between. It’s one of the things I generally liked about Obama, even if I’m also aware of times he didn’t live up to that. I think these are different universes of rhetoric, but this is a much more nuanced statement than the earlier posts. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/77 "2017-08-29T18:20:59Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I keep wondering which Infowars or Fox News columnist you really are. > > **Shodan** , meet the [Foureteenth Amendment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution). 14th Amendment, **Shodan**. We’ve met. I am not sure of your point - do you think the 14th Amendment supersedes the President’s pardon power? If it’s not that - and I can hardly believe it is - what exactly did you mean to prove with your Wiki cite, if anything? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/78 "2017-08-29T18:22:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What was the spirit of the Founding Fathers when they put the pardon clause into the Constitution? Do you have, for instance, some contemporary quotes that indicate that they thought something about Presidential pardons that they didn’t put into the Constitution? [Yes.](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-23/arpaio-pardon-would-show-contempt-for-constitution) > [@](#): > > James Madison noted at the Virginia ratifying convention that abuse of the pardon power could be grounds for impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/79 "2017-08-29T18:27:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I never claimed Obama did any of those things. I was responding to a post (#51) that specifically asked for examples Obama “where he encouraged his own followers to punch people he didn’t like.” He didn’t say _exactly_ that, but there were some pretty ugly lines from him that were similar in tone. I offered those up for **Gyrate** to review. **QuickSilver** offered up a positive example from Obama, and I agreed and said “Yes, Obama only occasionally said mean and nasty things.” That brings us to your reply that I quoted above. I was being sincere in my response to QuickSilver. Obama had various flaws, but he was certainly more articulate than the president that proceeded or followed him, and the cases of him resorting to ugly rhetoric were thankfully relatively few and far between. It’s one of the things I generally liked about Obama, even if I’m also aware of times he didn’t live up to that. In light of the above, I think you’d agree that people generally leave us with very clear impressions of who they are at their core. That’s not to say there aren’t those who leave us with ambivalent feelings as well. Hence, we tend to qualify their statements based on those lasting impressions. But overall, would you agree that on a scale of ‘bad –\> good’, Obama is much more to the good while Trump is far more to the bad? If you agree with the above, here’s where I’m going with this… When Obama said “bring a gun to a knife fight” do you think he meant it in a “mean and nasty” way? Was he being literal or was it a figurative expression? Similarly, when Trump said something like, “Knock the hell out of 'em! I’ll pay your legal fees!”. Was he being literal or figurative? Who do you think deserves the benefit of the doubt with respect to character and intent? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026/80 "2017-08-29T18:39:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I wasn’t trying to equate Arpaio with #BLM or Antifa. It was a specific response to a post (#53) that questioned whether “the left” likes cops or not. They’re obviously not monolithic on the matter, but I pointed out some examples and times when it was pretty obvious they didn’t. Nonetheless, it’s fair to compare the left’s actions expressing upset with what cops do, with the actions by cops that make the left upset. And why the hell don’t these same police abuses upset the right? And why does that absence of upset constitute ‘liking cops’? Something’s twisted there. And in this case, I’m comparing the actions of just one cop with your catalogue of the left’s actions. Quite a difference in scale, huh? On a scale from 0 to 10, with Arpaio being a 10, the lefties in question come in at about 0.01. In a thread about Arpaio, you’re focusing on the gnat while swallowing a camel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-trumps-pardon-of-arpaio-really-stand-out-from-past-pardons/795026.md?page=5)