# Does unconditional love really exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333 "2011-03-11T21:50:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/121 "2013-05-23T15:40:11Z")
> [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > back to the question. No prob-it was getting a bit sticky anyway. > [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > the term “love” is very problematic. how about unpacking the phrase “unconditional love?” > Is there such a thing as an unconditional experience? Besides death? Not that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/122 "2013-05-23T16:31:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No prob-it was getting a bit sticky anyway.Besides death? Not that I know of. If you mean an experience of unconditional love then the answer is yes. ---
**Author:** ![Moon\_Meyers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Moon\_Meyers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moon_Meyers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/123 "2013-05-24T15:35:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Besides death? Not that I know of. I thought of death too. Do you want to take a leap into Mysticism? > **[Mysticism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism)** > > Antiquity > Medieval > Early modern > Modern ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/124 "2013-05-24T15:42:41Z")
> [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > I thought of death too. Do you want to take a leap into Mysticism? > [Mysticism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism) No-I prefer [this.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/125 "2013-05-24T15:51:29Z")
> [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > back to the question. > the term “love” is very problematic. > how about unpacking the phrase “unconditional love?” > Is there such a thing as an unconditional experience? Unconditional love is not hard to understand. It is giving without any expectation of receiving something in return. It is being kind and loving when others are not kind and loving. It was the subject of the teachings of Jesus and other spiritual masters. ---
**Author:** ![Moon\_Meyers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Moon\_Meyers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moon_Meyers)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/126 "2013-05-24T23:56:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No-I prefer [this.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality) I think this is where we part. I can tell you that mysticism is also concerned with “Reality is the state of things as they actually exist” but by experience, a leap from reason. But it would take too long to work through, especially if you are not interested. Death is the great question. ---
**Author:** ![Moon\_Meyers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Moon\_Meyers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moon_Meyers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/127 "2013-05-25T00:03:35Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Hate is not the opposite of Love, fear is closer but love has no opposite. > > It is fear that creates all negative things including hate. The conventional opposite of love is hate, but I agree fear underlies hate. I am not sure that is true for self-hate. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/128 "2013-05-25T02:30:31Z")
> [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > The conventional opposite of love is hate, but I agree fear underlies hate. > I am not sure that is true for self-hate. We live in a duality here on earth for the purpose of learning to make the right choices. Choices that are beneficial to us. If we choose love we make the good choice. Fear is learned as well as love. When we love we are happy, calm, and peaceful without fear. Fear brings illnesses and other negative events to us. Most think they have no control on what happens. Those that love know they can control what happens. It is very simple and so hard to understand because it is not complicated. Everyone thinks they know but don’t. Love yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Moon\_Meyers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Moon\_Meyers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moon_Meyers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/129 "2013-05-25T13:47:36Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > We live in a duality here on earth for the purpose of learning to make the right choices. Choices that are beneficial to us. If we choose love we make the good choice. Fear is learned as well as love. When we love we are happy, calm, and peaceful without fear. Fear brings illnesses and other negative events to us. Most think they have no control on what happens. Those that love know they can control what happens. It is very simple and so hard to understand because it is not complicated. Everyone thinks they know but don’t. Love yourself. I agree with most of what you say. There are two aspects to reality, a dualistic relative aspect and an non-dualistic absolute aspect. My time now is dedicated to merging those two aspects in the here and now. Fear can be learned as a reaction to trauma and then can play itself out as a habitual pattern, often in non appropriate situations. It takes a lot of work to undo those patterns and for the most part we have been denied the tools. It is no so simple matter to realize we can make choices. btw, I am a happy person. Most people do not know what you mean by “love yourself”. Language can get in the way of talking about these levels of understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/130 "2013-05-25T15:17:52Z")
> [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > Death is the great question. Or the last answer. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/131 "2013-05-25T19:00:16Z")
> [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > I agree with most of what you say. > > There are two aspects to reality, a dualistic relative aspect and an non-dualistic absolute aspect. My time now is dedicated to merging those two aspects in the here and now. > > Fear can be learned as a reaction to trauma and then can play itself out as a habitual pattern, often in non appropriate situations. It takes a lot of work to undo those patterns and for the most part we have been denied the tools. It is no so simple matter to realize we can make choices. > > btw, I am a happy person. Most people do not know what you mean by “love yourself”. Language can get in the way of talking about these levels of understanding. To love yourself you don’t do things that are not beneficial to yourself. Like hold grudges or hate someone, judge others that don’t believe as you do, be prejudicial against others. Neither do dope, cigarettes, alcohol, and such. Have a kind demeanor with others. The tools are available, I have given them to many people. ---
**Author:** ![Moon\_Meyers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Moon\_Meyers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moon_Meyers)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/132 "2013-06-08T20:23:10Z")
the thread is about “unconditional love” not someone’s personal agenda. If we cannot agree on unconditional love, we need to look for an “unconditional” experience. I claim one exist outside of death, but you need to read to get to an understanding. Look up, it is “Fighting Ignorance”, not “Fostering Ignorance”, READ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/133 "2013-06-08T20:35:55Z")
> [@Moon\_Meyers](#): > > the thread is about “unconditional love” not someone’s personal agenda. If we cannot agree on unconditional love, we need to look for an “unconditional” experience. I claim one exist outside of death, but you need to read to get to an understanding. Look up, it is “Fighting Ignorance”, not “Fostering Ignorance”, READ One can find numerous instances of an unconditional love experience. I have one here if you will watch the whole video. https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yhlph9gCKv0?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PL65E46B6ADA34B202 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/134 "2013-06-09T04:34:39Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > One can find numerous instances of an unconditional love experience. > I have one here if you will watch the whole video. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhlph9gCKv0&list=PL65E46B6ADA34B202](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yhlph9gCKv0&list=PL65E46B6ADA34B202) What did you just make me watch? I gave up around love and strawberries. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/135 "2013-06-09T04:47:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That is not the definition of unconditional love. Now, if your dog loved you no matter _how_ you treated it… I am late to the show and have not read the whole thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned: True unconditional love does not exist nor should it. By definition, per Czarcasm’s strict use of the word, it would be flat out mental for someone to love another regardless of what that person did. Did they cheat on you? Did they beat you? Did they vivisect you? That said I would maintain the capacity for love, despite circumstances, denotes unconditional love or at least the most reasonable approximation worth getting to. I have seen cases of dogs horribly abused yet remained a good and willing spirit to be a good companion. Abuse that by right you would think any creature would tell the rest of the world to piss off. > [@](#): > > The mutilated boxer mix licks everyone she meets - despite being lacking from head to tail. > > Dahlia had her nose gouged out. Her ears cut off. Her lips trimmed back. Some toes removed. And her tail hacked away to a nub. > > SOURCE: [http://www.dailynews.com/ci\_12675173](http://www.dailynews.com/ci_12675173) That is not the only story like that and to be sure some dogs subject to such abuse are irredeemable but if there is ever an example of the capacity for love despite circumstances dogs come about as close as you will get in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/136 "2013-06-09T05:38:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What did you just make me watch? I gave up around love and strawberries. You missed it. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/137 "2013-06-09T11:07:29Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Love starts with yourself. I’d say this is the only type of unconditional love possible. Mostly everyone is in love with themselves. 😃 As for everybody else, – It depends. To have an unconditional love for someone would be preposterous because that person could be as cruel as they want and yet you would still go on loving them. That’s simply not going to happen for nearly any sane person. You have to think of it in terms of a personal betrayal too and not as if your love was a serial killer or something. That’s why children are the closest we can come to this ideal because they simply do not have the capacity to inflict harm or betrayal. I think the actual feeling is sustainable in some way, even though it might be somewhat delusional. For example, giving your life for another person could be the ultimate form of unconditional love. Even simple sacrifices made for other people is a form of unconditional love on a small scale. So it’s possible while at the same time being impossible. People can have unconditional love but at the same time have a breaking point. It does not make much sense but neither does life, and that’s the best I got. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/138 "2013-06-09T13:01:50Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I’d say this is the only type of unconditional love possible. Mostly everyone is in love with themselves. 😃 > > As for everybody else, – It depends. > > To have an unconditional love for someone would be preposterous because that person could be as cruel as they want and yet you would still go on loving them. That’s simply not going to happen for nearly any sane person. > > You have to think of it in terms of a personal betrayal too and not as if your love was a serial killer or something. That’s why children are the closest we can come to this ideal because they simply do not have the capacity to inflict harm or betrayal. > > I think the actual feeling is sustainable in some way, even though it might be somewhat delusional. For example, giving your life for another person could be the ultimate form of unconditional love. Even simple sacrifices made for other people is a form of unconditional love on a small scale. > > So it’s possible while at the same time being impossible. People can have unconditional love but at the same time have a breaking point. It does not make much sense but neither does life, and that’s the best I got. I wish most people did love themselves, it would solve a lot of problems, The suicide rate would tank as well as murders and random shootings. If you love yourself you will automatically love others. Very few people really love themselves. You may be confusing the enlarged ego of many with love. Actually love is always unconditional. A child may murder a dozen people but his mother would still love him in most instances. If you love someone only because they have value to you then that is not love it is just a contract. I will love you as long as you do what I want. That is not love. If you would understand love you must love unconditionally. That does not mean you have to approve of the actions of others, it means you care for them. Unconditional love comes from understanding the pain and grief others experience and trying to lessen it in logical ways. Helping others is the same as helping yourself. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/139 "2013-06-09T13:55:51Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Actually love is always unconditional. A child may murder a dozen people but his mother would still love him in most instances. If you love someone only because they have value to you then that is not love it is just a contract. I will love you as long as you do what I want. That is not love. If you would understand love you must love unconditionally. That does not mean you have to approve of the actions of others, it means you care for them. What if the child murders every single person in his mothers life. What if he robs her blind and leaves her crippled. Then, will she still have unconditional love for him? I think your failing to recognize reality and that no one is strong enough to exhibit the behavior you are talking about. People have limits. Love is as much of a joyful emotion as it is a responsibility. There are certain agreements that need to be upheld for it to function. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333/140 "2013-06-09T14:53:41Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You missed it. Just more unsubstantiated “NDE” nonsense-totally dismissible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unconditional-love-really-exist/574333.md?page=8)