# Does Unseen Academicals get any better? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 17, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515 "2012-07-17T13:39:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/41 "2012-07-20T16:35:17Z")
I agree with her. But I’d never live my life like that, and it bothers me that so many female characters in books are depicted like this - arrogant, stuck-up, pompous, and above all, not liking sex and normal sexual relationships. i.e., not real women at all. 😃 to the food porn in Tolkien. I’d rather not hear about delicious yummies I can’t even eat. Even IRL, while I like good food, I’d probably be happy with a food pill most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/42 "2012-07-20T18:41:42Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I agree with her. But I’d never live my life like that, and it bothers me that so many female characters in books are depicted like this - arrogant, stuck-up, pompous, and above all, not liking sex and normal sexual relationships. i.e., not real women at all. My favorite Susan book is _Thief of Time_ for this very reason. ---
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/43 "2012-07-20T20:44:41Z")
Following on from what others have said about various story arcs being wrapped up, I wonder whether Sir Terry is planning on ending the Discworld series…? Neither his newest book (_The Long Earth_), nor the next one (_Dodger_) is a Discworld novel. So presumably, there will be no Discworld novel this year. If he publishes one next year, there would be 40 Discworld novels over a period of 30 years, which would be a tidy place to finish off. (It would also fit in nicely with Sir Terry’s 65th birthday, which is the UK retirement age!) As mentioned before, _Unseen Academicals_ ties off the Rincewind / wizards arc, and _Snuff_ the Vimes / Watch arc. _I Shall Wear Midnight_ is the end of Tiffany Aching’s story, and Susan Sto Helit’s ended back in _Thief of Time_. In a way, _Carpe Jugulum_ finished off the witches / Lancre arc, even though Granny and Nanny have made cameos since then. The only story left unfinished is Moist von Lipwig’s. It was announced several years ago that there would be a book called _Raising Taxes_, in which Moist becomes Ankh-Morpork’s chief tax collector. Maybe Sir Terry has been holding it back, because he wants it to be the very last one? Perhaps it will end with Moist becoming the new Patrician…? Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/44 "2012-07-20T21:31:45Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > Following on from what others have said about various story arcs being wrapped up, I wonder whether Sir Terry is planning on ending the Discworld series…? I really wouldn’t be surprised, given his condition which will only worsen with age. Better to tie things off while he can rather than just stop. > [@](#): > > The only story left unfinished is Moist von Lipwig’s. It was announced several years ago that there would be a book called _Raising Taxes_, in which Moist becomes Ankh-Morpork’s chief tax collector. Maybe Sir Terry has been holding it back, because he wants it to be the very last one? Perhaps it will end with Moist becoming the new Patrician..? I don’t know that he’ll _be_ Patrician, but Vetinari has definitely been grooming him to be his successor. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/45 "2012-07-20T21:34:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > See, for me Nanny Ogg and the rest of the witches are Pterry’s high point, followed very closely by Vimes (up until **Night Watch**.) I like Susan and really can’t stand Rincewind at all. Really? Up _until_ “Night Watch”? That surprises me - most Pterry fans I know call “Night Watch” the best Watch novel of all, and arguably Pratchett’s very best. If only one of Pterry’s works is read or taught in schools in 2112 A.D., “Night Watch” would be the one I’d guess. Not to question your opinon, mind - just that it’s an unusual one, I think. Still, _de gustibus_ 'n all… > [@Anaamika](#): > > I like Granny…but sometimes she needs someone to slap her down. Which is why I enjoy Tiffany Aching, and am sorry that story arc seems to be over. I got definite hints that Tiffany could grow up to give Granny a run for her money. With maybe Petulia as her Nanny Ogg. In any case, I see Granny, Sam Vimes, and Tiffany as Pterry’s best-developed, most fully-realized and interesting characters. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/46 "2012-07-20T21:41:34Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I agree with her. But I’d never live my life like that, and it bothers me that so many female characters in books are depicted like this - arrogant, stuck-up, pompous, and above all, not liking sex and normal sexual relationships. i.e., not real women at all. Well, for one thing, when we first meet Susan, she’s 16 in a girl’s-only school. And even so she very much has normal teenage-girl feelings for Imp/Buddy (which are never mentioned again, AFAIK). And then in ToT she gets with Time, so it’s only HF where she’s not sexual, and you know, I’m OK with that. She’s got a lot to come to terms with. I should add while I’d agree she is (justifiably) arrogant, I wouldn’t consider Susan stuck-up or pompous at all. She is, in fact, exactly the opposite - note how she deals with kid’s fears of monsters, for instance - you don’t get more grounded than that. > [@](#): > > Even IRL, while I like good food, I’d probably be happy with a food pill most of the time. That’d be a worse horror story to me than the one where I die and wake up in Narnia _shudder_ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/47 "2012-07-20T21:53:19Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Really? Up _until_ “Night Watch”? That surprises me - most Pterry fans I know call “Night Watch” the best Watch novel of all, and arguably Pratchett’s very best. If only one of Pterry’s works is read or taught in schools in 2112 A.D., “Night Watch” would be the one I’d guess. > > Not to question your opinon, mind - just that it’s an unusual one, I think. Still, _de gustibus_ 'n all… Yeah, I caught that phrasing after the edit time had elapsed. Should have read “through” not “until.” As for wrapping up arcs, there are still _Raising Taxes_ and _Scouting For Trolls_ in the pipeline. That should wrap everybody up nicely, as I think \*Scouting \*is a throw-away like _Where’s My Cow_ and _The World of Poo_. Then _A Blink of the Screen_ collects all the short fiction and he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/48 "2012-07-21T01:35:45Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > Perhaps it will end with Moist becoming the new Patrician..? :eek: A new Patrician? Moist?!? Vetinari may or may not be grooming him, but he’s nowhere near operating in that league. Vetinari has grown so much over the course of the series, from sketchy caricature to deeply realized individual. He’s my favorite character in Discworld. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/49 "2012-07-21T01:57:52Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > A new Patrician? Moist?!? Vetinari may or may not be grooming him, but he’s nowhere near operating in that league. In both _Going Postal_ and _Making Money_, Moist has the whole damn city wrapped around his little finger. The Crowd, which _is_ Ankh-Morpork, loves him, and he Makes Things Happen. He’s smart, personable, understands politics and the human mind, and has discovered that he really enjoys using his con artist skills to do some actual good. Frankly I can’t think of anyone more capable or better to lead the city aside from Vetinari himself. That said, I’d be very surprised if Vetinari plans to step down anytime soon. It’s possible someone might finally successfully kill him (kill, not assassinate, of course), but he’s got a _lot_ to do. It’ll be decades before he’s ready to retire. But given the history Ankh-Morpork has of hideously ineffectual leaders, I’m quite certain he wants to establish a succession he can feel comfortable with as soon as possible, just in case he does, ah, leave office before he’s ready. I doubt _Raising Taxes_ will end with Moist as Patrician, but I do think Vetinari will make his plans for it known, either to the reader or to Moist directly. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/50 "2012-07-21T03:06:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Well, for one thing, when we first meet Susan, she’s 16 in a girl’s-only school. And even so she very much has normal teenage-girl feelings for Imp/Buddy (which are never mentioned again, AFAIK). And then in ToT she gets with Time, so it’s only HF where she’s not sexual, and you know, I’m OK with that. She’s got a lot to come to terms with. This is basically what I was about to post, with the addition that in _Hogfather_ it is mentioned briefly that Susan has had trouble dating because guys tend to get creeped out by things like her hair’s ability to move by itself. She’s also a (live-in, IIRC) governess to two young children at the time, which can’t leave much time for an active social life. Personally, I’m happy that Pratchett has major female characters who don’t exist primarily as love interests for the hero. Susan and the Lancre witches all have their own adventures, which sometimes involve a romance plot and sometimes do not – just like his male protagonists. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/51 "2012-07-21T03:27:23Z")
I really didn’t enjoy UA. I thought it was the worst book since Monstrous Regiment. Then I read a rave review of it on Boing Boing and was shocked Cory Doctorow was such a huge fan… until I got to the second-last paragraph where he revealed his all-time favourite Discworld novel was Monstrous Regiment. It took me so long to read UA, and I was so disinterested in it, that I don’t remember the plot, the characters or anything much at all. I suspect I’ll never read it again. Fortunately I liked Snuff better, although it was still a decline in quality and not really a book worthy of Vimes. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/52 "2012-07-21T03:52:33Z")
I found the big problem with MR was that the title gave away the major plot twist. After that it was quite…ordinary. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/53 "2012-07-21T04:01:14Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I found the big problem with MR was that the title gave away the major plot twist. After that it was quite…ordinary. Provided you’re familiar with the source. That’s not a given. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/54 "2012-07-21T04:51:32Z")
Well, you have to assume, as an author, that at least _some_ of your audience stayed awake in History. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515/55 "2012-07-21T13:25:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I found the big problem with MR was that the title gave away the major plot twist. After that it was quite…ordinary. I don’t think that was “the” major plot twist, and it’s something one could guess from pretty early on in the book, once Polly realizes that she’s not the only girl disguised as a boy.The bigger twists are that Jackrum is _also_ a woman, which is not necessarily implied by the title. This revelation, about a character who repeatedly says “I am not an [adjective] man”, is something that many readers probably would have seen coming before it was revealed even if the book had a different title.and also the whole thing with Wazzer, which I don’t think one could guess from the title alone. It’s also no secret in the book that the regiment includes a number of monsters (a vampire, a troll, and an Igor), so some readers probably assumed the title was meant literally even if they did recognize the source. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-unseen-academicals-get-any-better/628515.md?page=2)