# Does US Culture Value African American Male Beauty More? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228 "2019-05-20T13:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/21 "2019-05-21T02:13:41Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A guy who has a tendency to express this kind of opinion in an unsolicited fashion is revealing that he puts a lot of value on attractiveness, yes. > > Ask any woman over a certain age whether men make a big deal over who they find attractive, and I guaran-damn-tee the answer will be yes. Because it is damn-near impossible to go through a life as a woman without being catcalled or hearing some rando dude say “what’s up, beautiful” or listen to a guy talk about women’s bodies in an objectifying manner. > > I can’t seriously believe you’re questioning something as basic as this, but I guess I’ll keep playing along. Well, here’s a hint. Guys put a lot of value on attractiveness when it comes to relationships. Not so much when it comes to having sex with some woman. Can’t believe you find this amazing, but I’ll keep playing along. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/22 "2019-05-21T02:19:47Z")
I don’t think that a man (Manson) chiming in about black women that he finds attractive, is irrelevent or unsolicited in a thread where the OP itself asks “Plus, I invite you, the reader, to share their own experiences and views on the matter”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/23 "2019-05-21T02:24:45Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I don’t think that a man (Manson) chiming in about black women that he finds attractive, is irrelevent or unsolicited in a thread where the OP itself asks “Plus, I invite you, the reader, to share their own experiences and views on the matter”. Well, thanks. I didn’t think so either, but maybe I’m wrong. But any man, of any race, who doesn’t think Beyonce is hot has something wrong with them 🙂 IMHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/24 "2019-05-21T02:26:24Z")
With that being said, the whole OP is very bizarrely worded, and gives off steaming waves of “posting while drunk and/or high”. No offense…it happens…that’s just the impression I get. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/25 "2019-05-21T02:49:32Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I _can_ conceive of a mind that is so saturated with anti-black women imagery that it refuses to acknowledge black feminine beauty, because to do so is to require the admission that one has the hots for one of the stereotypes I mentioned earlier. And for a certain kind of guy, that’s only something losers would do. I keep thinking of the movie _Stuck_ based on the story of Chante Mallard who became infamous after running over a homeless man with her car and then driving to her house while he was still stuck in her windshield while he slowly died. Mallard is a black woman and the movie decided to go with Mena Suvari to play her. But they gave Suvari cornrows so progress? I think the casting choice there is a good example of anti-black imagery. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/26 "2019-05-21T03:07:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, here’s a hint. Guys put a lot of value on attractiveness when it comes to relationships. Not so much when it comes to having sex with some woman. Can’t believe you find this amazing, but I’ll keep playing along. My dad frequently gushes over the beauty of Alicia Silverstone. It creeps me out because we’re the same age. Guess who my father is married to, though. Guess who he fathered four children with. It wasn’t Alicia Silverstone or anyone who resembles her. Funny, he always seems to gush over the pale-skinned, blonde-haired beauties on TV and on movies. None of his celebrity crushes ever deviate from this boring-ass formula…probably because Hollywood really hasn’t either. So…guys fuck whatever wet hole they can find, but only settle down with the best looking ones. Did I get that right? I guess this is one of those things a guy can say, but a woman is an evil bitch ever she were to ever utter such a thing out loud. But I think it’s a garbage generalization. I believe the real truth is that guys aren’t as particular about appearance as they like to put on AND they tend to settle down with women they feel comfortable bringing around friends and family. We’re seeing more black woman-white guy pairings not because white guys are suddenly discovering the hotness of black women. We’re seeing more of them because black women have improved social status. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/27 "2019-05-21T06:54:21Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I don’t think that a man (Manson) chiming in about black women that he finds attractive, is irrelevent or unsolicited in a thread where the OP itself asks “Plus, I invite you, the reader, to share their own experiences and views on the matter”. Did you see the point that he responded to? **monstro** listed several actresses and said they looked nothing alike and thus she can’t understand summarily dismissing them as unattractive as a group. **manson** then regales us with his appraisal on the hotness of each of those actresses. It has nothing to really do **monstro’s** point, though. If his opinion is simply that there he sees the diversity in BW and recognizes some as hot and some as not—presumably, more or less like any other group of women, no?—then you’d think he would just say this. Still not a very rich contribution but at least it would directly connect to the point made. But no, he needs us to know more than than that; he wants us to know how he specifically rates the list of actresses mentioned because he thinks that we all care about whether that specific list of actresses do it for him. To see him very shortly thereafter question the idea that white men make a big deal about who they find hot…I’m sorry, all this begs to be called out. I’ve posted on this board (and elsewhere) for over a decade and a half now. The pattern is hard to miss. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/28 "2019-05-21T07:03:58Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I believe the real truth is that guys aren’t as particular about appearance as they like to put on AND they tend to settle down with women they feel comfortable bringing around friends and family. Very true. With all the talk men do about the hotness of women with the perfect hip to waist ratio, you’d think apple shaped gals would all be lonely female incels. But nope. In my neck of the woods, they never seem to lack male company. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/29 "2019-05-21T10:46:29Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Very true. With all the talk men do about the hotness of women with the perfect hip to waist ratio, you’d think apple shaped gals would all be lonely female incels. But nope. In my neck of the woods, they never seem to lack male company. A lot of guys would have you believe that evolutionary forcing has mandated that their dicks only get hard for blonde-haired women with BMIs less than 26 and hourglass figures. They think this explains why women who fit this description dominate popular media. But women who look like this (naturally or otherwise) make up a small fraction of the global population. In the UK, the hourglass figure is represented in only [8% of the female population](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/fashion-beauty/624039/Female-figure-body-shape-women-popular-most-common). That doesn’t jibe with an “Bro, it’s our evolutionary imperative!” hypothesis at all. It strikes me as much more logical to assume that many guys play up their attraction to whatever image society has deemed “hawt” to establish their “non-loser guy” bonafides than to assume guys are undiscriminating when it comes to sex but place a premium on the attractiveness of their potential life partners. No, both flings and life partners are chosen based on attraction, while a bunch of socio-cultural factors also go into the selection of life partners. Someone–male or female–who cares about maintaining their social status isn’t going to settle down with someone who threatens that status. Until recently, white guys could not maintain their social status by pairing themselves with black women since they couldn’t take them home to friends and Mama without facing a lot of hostility and disappointment. I just watched the indie movie **Raising Victor Vargas**. The movie starts off with a teenage boy being mocked by his siblings and friends because he’s seen poking his head out of the bedroom window of the neighborhood “fat girl”. He immediately scrambles to “redeem” himself by pursuing the neighborhood “hawt girl”–the one he can brag about to all his friends and bring home to Mama. Do all guys chase status like this? Of course not. But is it a prevalent enough pattern that many guys can relate to this experience? I’m guessing it is, since movies don’t get created in a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/30 "2019-05-21T13:18:53Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Plus, I invite you, the reader, to share their own experiences and views on the matter, when helpful or what adds to (or even against) my theory. > > Does US culture value Black male beauty more than female? As I said, it is mainly a personal theory. But I have found it to be true again and again. The stereotypical perception of the black look is “big and strong”. This is currently considered a very attractive quality in men but much less so in women. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/31 "2019-05-21T13:20:45Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > So…guys fuck whatever wet hole they can find, but only settle down with the best looking ones. Did I get that right? Pretty much, yeah. You find this surprising? > [@](#): > > I guess this is one of those things a guy can say, but a woman is an evil bitch ever she were to ever utter such a thing out loud Utter what such thing? I’m not following this. > [@](#): > > But I think it’s a garbage generalization. I believe the real truth is that guys aren’t as particular about appearance as they like to put on AND they tend to settle down with women they feel comfortable bringing around friends and family. We’re seeing more black woman-white guy pairings not because white guys are suddenly discovering the hotness of black women. We’re seeing more of them because black women have improved social status. Well, I’m sure you know more about the motivations of white men than I do. I think we are seeing more because it’s becoming more socially acceptable for a white guy to date a black woman. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/32 "2019-05-21T13:23:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > To see him very shortly thereafter question the idea that white men make a big deal about who they find hot…I’m sorry, all this begs to be called out. I’ve posted on this board (and elsewhere) for over a decade and a half now. The pattern is hard to miss. This only holds true if you think “Telling people on a message board who I find attractive from a list that someone posted” is “making a big deal about who they find hot” I don’t share that view. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/33 "2019-05-21T13:28:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This only holds true if you think “Telling people on a message board who I find attractive from a list that someone posted” is “making a big deal about who they find hot” > > I don’t share that view. I don’t think this is a huge deal, but I do think there’s something in our society that tells men that it’s perfectly acceptable, and even welcome, to comment on which women we find “hot”, when in actuality these kind of comments can often reasonably be seen as objectifying. I don’t think you meant anything bad by it, but I think this sort of societal lean towards “men can comment on women’s bodies as much as they want” is a negative thing that we should resist. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/34 "2019-05-21T13:43:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think this is a huge deal, but I do think there’s something in our society that tells men that it’s perfectly acceptable, and even welcome, to comment on which women we find “hot”, when in actuality these kind of comments can often reasonably be seen as objectifying. I don’t think you meant anything bad by it, but I think this sort of societal lean towards “men can comment on women’s bodies as much as they want” is a negative thing that we should resist. Well, I don’t think there is anything particularly wrong with acknowledging the attractiveness of a woman. Nor acknowledging her intelligence or work ethic or any other attribute. If someone asked me, I’d tell them what I thought. I don’t just sit around and loudly exclaim to all and sundry “Know who I think is hot?? \!!!” When responding to a post that seemed to imply that white men inexplicably don’t find those particular black women attractive it seems relevant what THIS white man thought. Of course, when people base their thoughts about what motivates white men on what they see in TV shows and movies, maybe there isn’t any point in discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/35 "2019-05-21T13:44:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This only holds true if you think “Telling people on a message board who I find attractive from a list that someone posted” is “making a big deal about who they find hot” > . You doth protest too much. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/36 "2019-05-21T13:45:29Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, I don’t think there is anything particularly wrong with acknowledging the attractiveness of a woman. Nor acknowledging her intelligence or work ethic or any other attribute. If someone asked me, I’d tell them what I thought. I don’t know. Maybe in a perfectly fair and equal society. But in our society, I think we have to be extra-extra-careful with this kind of thing, because women’s bodies are already considered a sort of public property in so many ways. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/37 "2019-05-21T13:50:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t know. Maybe in a perfectly fair and equal society. But in our society, I think we have to be extra-extra-careful with this kind of thing, because women’s bodies are already considered a sort of public property in so many ways. Sure. That’s why if someone asked me “Hey, what do you think about Jane’s work ethic?” I wouldn’t answer “I don’t know, but damn is she hot!” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/38 "2019-05-21T13:56:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > When responding to a post that seemed to imply that white men inexplicably don’t find those particular black women attractive it seems relevant what THIS white man thought. This was the thesis of her post: > [@](#): > > The internet sphere seems to be heavily infested with guys who just can’t help but to express their negative feelings about black womens’ looks. She didn’t imply what you said, and in fact, her claim is the exact opposite: she’s saying white men _are_ attracted to BW but go out of their way to broadcast negative opinions about them. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/39 "2019-05-21T13:59:37Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > She didn’t imply what you said, and in fact, her claim is the exact opposite: she’s saying white men _are_ attracted to BW but go out of their way to broadcast negative opinions about them. Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/40 "2019-05-21T14:32:46Z")
I believe who we think of as hot is partly hard-wired, but also partly based on whom we see in real life and in the media. Growing up in a nearly 100-percent white area in the 70s and 80s, I had almost zero visual exposure to black women. There were no prominent, mainstream black actresses, and women’s sports in general were almost entirely off the radar. So for me (and, I’m guessing, for many white men like me) it’s not as intuitive\* to equate “black” with “sexually attractive.” (My mom, on the other hand, who would be 78 if she were still around, always had a thing for Sidney Poitier.) White men growing up in more recent decades have been exposed to far more black actresses and athletes, so even if they don’t grow up in diverse areas they may be more open to seeing black women as attractive and potential partners. \*This doesn’t, of course, mean that we can’t learn. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228.md?page=3)