# Does US Culture Value African American Male Beauty More? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228 "2019-05-20T13:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2019, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/61 "2019-05-24T11:04:46Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This is just me speaking _ex cathedra_ from my ass, but given that our culture usually deems a white woman as the paragon of sexual appeal Marilyn Monroe in the 60’s, Farrah Fawcett-Majors in the 70’s, Scarlett Johansson or Angelina Jolie today - it’s not surprising that black men would also feel this societal influence, and pursue women who match that ideal. I’ve seen this argument before, but shouldn’t this be true for black women? White leading men far outnumber black ones, but you don’t see a lot of black women pursuing guys that remind them of Brad Pitt, Robert Pattinson or Keanu Reeves. My personal take is that Hannibal Lecter had it right in “Silence of the Lambs” - we covet the familiar. You find more inter-racial couples among groups that are more integrated. I saw none growing up in the projects, but when we moved to a subdivision I saw some (and more once I started college in the same area). Try as we might, we still spend the bulk of our time in reality. The number of inter-racial marriages/relationships should be higher if media influence was all that, because you see way more white faces on your screen of choice than you will around you. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/62 "2019-05-28T17:48:56Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Sorry, I must disagree. > > There is always going to be a subset of any demographic who are motivated to do certain things out of a desire for status. No group is immune to this. > > There are black guys who only chase light-skimned girls not just because they perceive them as more attractive, but because they enjoy the image of themselves with a light-skinned girl on their arm. It is an image that makes him feel important, like a dude who has got it going on. Just like the image of him owninv a new sports or the image of him in an Armani suit. > > I have observed with my own eyes guys dogging the hell out of cute and attractive dark skinned girls. They don’t single out other “ugly” people for some reason, but they see fit to denigrate this group at the top of ther lungs. Why do they do this? My surmise is they are hungry for status. If you can’t get you a “high status” girl, the next best thing is to talk shit about the girl you view as “low status”. That way she won’t get her cooties on you. > > Now, not all blacks guys do this and not all black guys desire light-skinned/white girls just to use them as a status symbol. But some significant portion do both of these things…or at least they have gone through a phase of doing these things. > > There are black woman who do the same thing, by the way. They play up their interracial romance not just because they are in love with their white guy, but because they think having a white guy to show off makes them hot shit. Do a whole lot of black women do this? I have no idea. But I have come across enough stuff on the internet to know it is a real phenomenon. > > Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk (Sorry to take so long responding, hope I didn’t kill the conversation.) This sounds more like old school colorism to me, which I will fully admit is still an issue in the black community. I think we all want someone on our arm that we like and others think is attractive and not all of us agree about what that person looks like (light skin, dark skin, thick, thin, whatever…). Most of the brothas I know are far more interested in how phat a women’s ass is vs her skin tone regardless of if she’s white, black, Latina, or whatever. I know that’s not very flattering and it doesn’t portray us in the best light but it’s the truth from my perspective. That being said, in my personal experience black people dating white people is not something folks from my family or social circle would ever consider to be high status. If anything it lowers your status and more often than not results in the black person hiding the fact that they are involved with a white person because the subject is still considered uncomfortable to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/63 "2019-05-28T18:16:11Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Eh. These things often happen subconsciously. The pursuit of status is a constant in our species, and it’s naive to think this doesn’t affect who pairs with whom. Especially when some demographic groups are not as socially esteemed as others. > > That doesn’t mean every single IR relationship can be judged. I don’t know if I agree with your position. Growing up in Richmond, VA in the 70s, 80s & 90s black folks didn’t really give a shit about how socially esteemed white people were in comparison to us. This all started decades before with our parents who went to the various Virginia HBCUs, stayed close over the decades and established a state wide social network comprised mostly of black profesionals. We were the children of doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. and we never saw ourselves as inferior so we simply did our own thing and established our own social hierarchy. As a result, none of my people have ever felt that white people are more socially esteemed than we are. Perhaps my experience is more unique than I previously believed. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/64 "2019-05-28T19:12:32Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > I don’t know if I agree with your position. > > Growing up in Richmond, VA in the 70s, 80s & 90s black folks didn’t really give a shit about how socially esteemed white people were in comparison to us. This all started decades before with our parents who went to the various Virginia HBCUs, stayed close over the decades and established a state wide social network comprised mostly of black profesionals. We were the children of doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. and we never saw ourselves as inferior so we simply did our own thing and established our own social hierarchy. As a result, none of my people have ever felt that white people are more socially esteemed than we are. > > Perhaps my experience is more unique than I previously believed. Your background totally explains why your experience differs from mine and **you with the face** (we are sisters). My non-expert guess is that it has more to do with class than geography whether a person equates whiteness with status. If you are already doing well status-wise, you are not going to chase a"flashy" status symbol like white skin. By the way, I live in Richmond. It is a different place from my hometown Atlanta, but I like living here. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/65 "2019-05-28T19:36:54Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I’ve seen this argument before, but shouldn’t this be true for black women? White leading men far outnumber black ones, but you don’t see a lot of black women pursuing guys that remind them of Brad Pitt, Robert Pattinson or Keanu Reeves. Men tend to do the pursuing, regardless of race. A woman may be attracted to a man but is going to be reluctant to chase after him. This is especially the case if she thinks he wants something she’s not. Since many black woman assume that white men are not interested in them—fully appreciative of racism’s role in that—it has a dampening effect on their attraction to white men. This seems to be changing, though. As more BW/WM relationships increase and gain visibility, assumptions about who is attracted to whom become less rigid. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/66 "2019-05-28T19:48:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Your background totally explains why your experience differs from mine and **you with the face** (we are sisters). My non-expert guess is that it has more to do with class than geography whether a person equates whiteness with status. If you are already doing well status-wise, you are not going to chase a"flashy" status symbol like white skin. > > By the way, I live in Richmond. It is a different place from my hometown Atlanta, but I like living here. > > Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk I missed your location! I hope Richmond treats you as well as it has always treated me. I have always loved Atlanta because it feels similar to Richmond, just a whole lot bigger. Full disclosure: This is the first time I sat down and attempted to explain my upbringing and I’m starting to see where I might have a blind spot or two…your non-expert opinion is probably pretty accurate. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/67 "2019-05-28T20:34:37Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > I don’t know if I agree with your position. To put it simply, the issue is really complex. As much as I wish all relationships were based on compatibility and love, I’ve seen and experienced too much to be able to say this. Colorism is only a rock and throw away from what we’re talking about. For what it’s worth, I’m black and I’m married to a white man. Neither one of us are with each other because of race. Or to put it more frankly and personally, if my husband was black instead of white, I have no doubt I’d be with him. Same goes for him if I were white. But I’m not naive. My husband’s family are great and kind, but they are highly conservative, evangelical “urban areas are scary!” white people. He is the only one of the tribe who has married a black person. When he told them about me, he didn’t hide my race because he didn’t want any awkwardness when we met. He would never admit this but I know he felt a need to sell me to them. Fortunately, I was easy to sell compared to his previous girlfriend, who had baggage. She had a child from a previous relationship (not married). She wasn’t highly educated and didn’t really have a career. With her as my predecessor, I objectively looked like a great catch. My race wasn’t as much of a concern as it could have been. This is how racial status largely plays out. With my in-laws, my race subtracted status points that had to be compensated with other things. If I had the same profile as my husband’s previous gf, it would’ve been harder for my husband to sell me to his parents. It’s likely he still would’ve stayed with me, but if he was the type to go with the grain, maybe not. When race _adds_ status points, what happens is that baggage that would normally be a deal breaker gets ignored or excused or treated as less serious as was previously perceived. I believe this all happens subconsciously, like I said before. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/68 "2019-05-28T22:02:19Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > I missed your location! I hope Richmond treats you as well as it has always treated me. I have always loved Atlanta because it feels similar to Richmond, just a whole lot bigger. > > Full disclosure: This is the first time I sat down and attempted to explain my upbringing and I’m starting to see where I might have a blind spot or two…your non-expert opinion is probably pretty accurate. When I say I’m a non-expert, I really mean it. I’ve got my own blindspots! My experience is likely just as limited as yours, just in a different way. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/69 "2019-06-02T20:00:14Z")
As a side point, I see and know a lot of white males with asian female couples…that’s about as prevalent in the circles where I travel as anything else, and even moreso… There’s more to the interracial thing than just black and white. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228/70 "2019-06-03T03:07:33Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This is just me speaking _ex cathedra_ from my ass, but given that our culture usually deems a white woman as the paragon of sexual appeal Marilyn Monroe in the 60’s, Farrah Fawcett-Majors in the 70’s, Scarlett Johansson or Angelina Jolie today - it’s not surprising that black men would also feel this societal influence, and pursue women who match that ideal. As has been pointed out, black women don’t get the same cultural validation, so white men are not pushed toward seeing them as desirable. (In broad strokes, though; the truth, of course, is that _some_ white men are attracted to _some_ black women, and vice versa.) > > That does seem to me as though it’s changing a bit; women like Halle Berry and Beyoncé are held up as beauties in a way that I don’t recall applied to any African-American woman when I was a teenager in the 80’s. > > Isn’t there also a dynamic among black men that says having a white lover is a marker of status? I’m a white man, thus unqualified to comment on black culture; perhaps **monstro** or or **you with the face** could elucidate? This one hits it pretty much on the head. We’ve used the terms “minority” and “majority” so long as racial/ethnic terms we forget that they’re _mathematical_ in origin. “Majority” meaning _more than half_ of the whole. So the social standards of the majority get broadcasted and internalized by the minority. BTW as a white guy who hit puberty in the '60’s (the nineteen-sixties, not my own sixties), there were a couple of BWs who pinged my sex drive. Nichelle Nichols and, maybe Ertha Kitt in the Catwoman outfit. I think that WM/BF relationships are becoming more common because we’ve moved past the slaveholder/slave thing that was used as an instrument for disapproval of that particular arrangement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-us-culture-value-african-american-male-beauty-more/834228.md?page=3)