Just because it’s ‘extremely tightly regulated’ and ‘auto makers spend massive amounts of money making sure their lights don’t blind people.’ does not equate to OEM HIDs don’t blind anyone. That second one more speaks to that they do and the automakers are spending money to get them used anyway.
HID lights are borderline just to make them passable, IIRC salts are used to alter the beam color just enough to make them pass. But anyway just because you are within the regulations (and just squeaking by to get in) do not mean you are not harming the vision of others.
But all you need to do is face one oncoming and you know right away that they are way too bright and interfering with your ability to see the road too much. But like most things, throw enough money in the right places and you can make anything pass.
Fog lights used to be mounted very low (lower then most cars go now), and IIRC the beam set forward (not down). The reason is that close to the ground there may be a fog free area due to the temperature of the ground interacting with the air, but this is pretty close to the ground. Most fog lights today are mounted far too high to take advantage of that so now they just light up the foreground area.
Before I understood the issue I also thought this way - the smaller “poiont” of the lightsource gave the impression of being brighter and the different appearance of HIDs had a psychosomatic effect where I thought they affected me more simply because I remembered them because they were different. Now that I am conscious of it HID lights no longer bother me and my ability to see was never affected.
Just wanted to say that this was an awesome answer. Great job.
Also wanted to note that I am in the 'fog lights on a non-foggy day are annoying."
Do they annoy other drivers? Yes. Yes they do.
Do they blind other drivers? Yes. Yes they do.
Do they improve long-range visibility? No they don’t. That’s not opinion. That’s science.
Do they look kind of badass? Yeah. Yeah they do. Still, please don’t turn them on unless its foggy/snowy.
Just want to point out that BMW and some others with a vested interest in allowing HID lighting helped sponsor this study, which goes to my point, spending a lot of money on such things is more of a indicator that they are trying to get something to stay approved when it perhaps should not be.
So are you doubting that a brighter light source can effect night vision then a dimmer one? IIRC HID lamps put out far more light, so much that they use up a lot to light up the foreground because they are right at their limit max allowable down road light. But not only do you have someone right at the max limit shining light at you, but vastly lit ground around them.
BMW is not a manufacturer of lights, the manufacturers of HID lights are mostly the same companies that also make all the other kinds of lights too. When I say “spend a lot of money” I mean they spend a lot of money researching and producing lighting equipment that meets all regulations in all major countries which is actually really hard. Small companies like Ferrari and whatnot often have to use off the shelf light units from other cars because they can’t justify the huge expense of designing unique lights for small production runs.
You are suggesting that all the regulatory authorities in the EU, US, Japan, all over the world are being paid off by “Big Headlight” to approve unsafe headlights and have been getting away with it for 25+ years.
There are more factors that must be considered than just how bright a light is? If we’ve learned anything in this thread I should think it would be that where the light is aimed is more important than how bright the light is.
BMW has a vested interest in having the option of unique lighting that others will not be having (such as Ferrari). They don’t have to be a manufacturer to benefit.
Do you have any doubt that regulations are sometimes influenced by people with vested interest?
We know that a small (less then 1 watt I think) handheld laser has been know to cause problems with airplane pilots, so yes a lot as to do with how much light reaches your eyes and what pattern so how it is aimed is important. Reflected light off the ground also reaches the eyes however, reflect enough and it will have a effect. HID lamps seem to surpass that level in many people as evidence by the number of complaints and I believe they are banned in certain countries.
This is a tiresome argument. Sure, anything is possible, but I’ll leave to the reader to determine how plausible your suggestion is vs other likely explanations.
I don’t know of any places where HIDs are outright banned, but in many/most countries (U.S. included) it’s illegal to put an HID capsule in a housing designed for an incandescent bulb.
I see cars with HID all the time. You can’t miss them, but not so much because they’re a lot brighter, like high beams, but becuse they’re much more brilliant and white, like florescent light. And I’ve never found them to be blinding like high beams either. The ones that are must be HID elements in incandescent fixtures. Do they just fit into sockets they weren’t designed for? Because I would think they’d be different to specifically avoid this from happening.
you can get dodgy aftermarket kits which bung HID capsules onto a base which fits into an existing housing. Typically they come with cheap poorly shielded ballasts which wipe out your radio reception and can negatively affect other electronic modules. People who put these things into their cars should be beaten with reeds.
Yeah I guess not, I though they were. I did notice the different design between European and US (NA) headlamp requirements, in particular that the European requirement is that no light goes in a ‘upward’ direction and HID lights need a cleaning system and auto levelers all to prevent blinding oncoming traffic. NA standards require some light ‘upward’ and have no requirement for the cleaning or leveling system.
There are inexpensive (less than $100) aftermarket HID kits that will replace most regular bulbs. They are usually blinding to other drivers in a ‘regular’ reflector type headlight - something to do with the filament running in a different direction as I understand it. In a car with projector style headlights HIDs may be able to be swapped in without blinding other drivers but, as others have mentioned, it is illegal to put HIDs in a non HID housing. Also there are claims that using HID bulbs in a projector style housing provides worse light output, even if it is not blinding to other drivers, I am sure someone will provide the link.
If you ever see a civic or other inexpensive car with what are obviously HIDs chances are it’s an aftermarket kit. Chances are they are blinding everyone coming towards them too.
I have never felt blinded by OEM HIDs. I read somewhere that there where a large number of complaints about lights being ‘blinding’ to oncoming drivers when electrical systems went from 6 to 12 volts but I can’t find any sites.
All of the auxiliary light bulbs that I’ve seen in cars a decade old or less use 55 watt bulbs. That’s the same wattage as a low beam headlight. I’m not confident that engineers spent as more time worrying about the beam pattern on the luxe lights as they did on the headlights. Most are decorative only and not “true” fog lights as the OP has claimed.
I have been distracted by auxiliary lights on approaching vehicles but in most cases they were on trucks and SUVS. Those have a higher ride height than autos and I have a low slung car that puts my head at the level of most sedan driver’s shoulders.
Please. If it’s not foggy, don’t use your fog lights. No, they don’t make you more visible than your two headlights already do. Some lighting configurations obscure the outline of your vehicle. Is that a jacked-up truck with a sports car behind it? Are those three lights a motorcycle and a car or just a car with one light out? Some manufacturers put lights where they look cool, which can make it difficult to see your turn signals from certain angles.