# Does Voyager get better? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626 "2004-08-06T15:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/41 "2004-08-07T05:00:49Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Kirk would have boned half the crew as well, and at least then there would have been something worth watching. > > “Sevenof…_Nine._ Resistance…is… _futile._” \ You sir are the winner of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/42 "2004-08-07T05:03:20Z")
> [@LordVor](#): > > I’m fully aware that the time ship was herding them towards the wormhole. But even if the timeship hadn’t been there, not a single crewman was aware of the technique that Kirk used lastt than a Vulcan lifespan ago to save the Earth from the Aliens that Wanted to Chat With Whales, nobody mentioned the POSIBILITY of using a common time travel technique to go home, while people DID mention the possibility of just staying on ancient earth. > > Which, in my book, labels them all dumbasses. > > -lv You think that Starfleet would just tell everyone how Kirk and crew travelled back in time, giving everyone with a functioning warp drive the ability to completely fuck over the timeline at will? I very seriously doubt that the method is known outside a need-to-know basis. Anything else would incredibly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/43 "2004-08-07T05:26:57Z")
Good concept. Lost in Space is not such a bad idea for a dramatic sci-fi series, especially one with Trek’s history behind it. Mixed bag of a cast and characters. Janeway/Mulgrew was generally good. Picard/Doctor was very good. Ryan/Seven was really good, until the producers decided to turn the show into _Star Trek: Another Story About the Hot Chick in the Catsuit_. Everyone else was either boring (Paris, Harry, Chakotay) or affirmatively annoying (Neelix, Kes). Absolutely terrible follow-through on the concept. The reset button has been mentioned many times already, and it’s an absolute disgrace. What the hell difference do hard decisions and hard times make if they’re all forgotten by the next episode? Overall, a mixed bag, with most episodes being tolerable entertainment, but the overall series being a huge disappointment. Incidentally, here’s the best Trek review site on the web: [Hypertext](http://www.st-hypertext.com). ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/44 "2004-08-07T06:23:04Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Episode #131, Series 6.They do in the final episode. Berman & Braga (the producers) evidently wanted to conclude the series after 7 seasons, just like all the others since The Next Generation, but had no idea how to do so. They ended up throwing together a piece of crap that not only features time travel but two Janeways and the destruction of the Borg hive mind. Yeah, tell me about it… [spoiler]…I would have thought the reasonable thing to do would have been to bring back the “Caretaker’s” mate, who they ran across in like the 2nd season, and who thought that Voyager had murdered him. I’d imagined something like having the Caretaker’s mate angrily show up to keep Voyager from making any more progress out of the Delta quadrant, a bunch of new-age touchy-feely crap, after which the mate is finally convinced of Voyager’s noble intent, and sends the ship back to Earth. You know, bring the story full circle. Instead, we get Alice Kirge. And some more unusually specialized Borg ships. And 7 of 9 hooking up with…_Chakotay._ :eek: 😕 I mean, where the hell did _that_ come from? That’s like having Scotty hook up with Yeoman Rand. Or Q with Moneypenny. Or Martin Crane with Roz. It’s just—aaaugh! [/spoiler] …You know, we really need a “brain exploding” smiley for times like this. Almost as bad as we need a “puking” smiley. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/45 "2004-08-07T06:30:18Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > I loved the premise: Half the crew is Starfleet crewcut types, the other half is Maqui cutthroats, they have to work together to get back home. And cut off from communication with Starfleet, they’re on their own with unprecedented moral dilemmas. You really can’t ask for a better premise. It’s then too bad they didn’t do anything with it. Any actual interpersonal conflicts were transient and forgotten by the next episode. Chakotay remained loyal, Torres remained an intermittent bitch, but harder-core rebellion from Maquis crew came from people who were promptly killed off or never seen again. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/46 "2004-08-07T11:12:01Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > It’s then too bad they didn’t do anything with it. Any actual interpersonal conflicts were transient and forgotten by the next episode. Chakotay remained loyal, Torres remained an intermittent bitch, but harder-core rebellion from Maquis crew came from people who were promptly killed off or never seen again. The show would have been a hundred times better if Chakotay and Janeway had been basically hostile to each other the whole time, and only forced to work together because it was the only way they could survive. Think of the tension, having some of their greatest enemies actually on the ship serving as part of the crew. Instead, they were all buddy-buddy after a few episodes. **What a waste.** ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/47 "2004-08-07T11:14:22Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Not just “turned” into newts… > > ::Spoiler box, though I don’t know why:: > > [spoiler]they “evolved” into newts. Because they took a ride on a shuttlecraft that had been modified to travel at “Warp 10.” > > Now, “Warp 10,” as it’s commonly understood to be under the modern “rules” of ST, isn’t just “a really high speed that it’s hard to go to.” It’s infinite speed. It would take infinite energy to acheive. You would occupy all points in the universe simultaniously. > > (Even Q, who is omnipotent, is calculated to move at something like Warp 9.99999999. And with that, he is able to reach any point in the universe, at any _time_ in the universe, instantly.) > > But the Voyager shuttlecraft did it, with some simple (if exotic) modifications to it’s engines. That’d be like a 747 being able to go faster than light after getting a tuneup. > > And—get this—the whole occupying every point in the universe simultaniously bit? > > They didn’t gloss over it. They actually had Paris _say that he did it._ He occupied every possible point in the universe, simultaniously. And he was able to comprehend it. > > And then, after getting back to Voyager with fuel left over (AAARGH), Paris didn’t just start “mutating”…they said he was “evolving at an accelerated rate.” > > That, of course, is not how evolution works. No F\*\*\*\*IN’ WAY— > > ::pauses, catches breath, runs fingers through hair:: > > Anyway, you’d think that if he were “evolving,” maybe he would be transforming into an organism perfectly suited to survive living on a hospital bed in a windowless room on a starship. But no…apparently, life naturally tries to “evolve” towards an end result. > > Which, in Mr. Paris’ (and later, Captain Janeway’s, and by extention, all of humanity’s) case, seems to be a five foot long newt creature that breaths some toxic-corrosive gas, has no tongue, and has “super intelligence” (which just sounded like psychotic ravings) which he apparently used for the great task of lying naked on a mudbank in an alien swamp, not moving a whole lot. > > Oh, and Paris kidnapped the captain, took her on the Warp 10 shuttle so she’d “evolve” too, landing on an alien world with a pleasant enough climate (although an alien world _easily within a few days of Voyager_, which is a little odd if you’re trying to make a getaway in a shuttlecraft that can _take you anywhere in the universe_), where he and the now “evolved” captain proceeded to screw each other (!) and produce a litter of little newtlings. (!!!) > > Then, Voyager managed to recapture the two, and turn 'em back to normal. They left their offspring in the swamp, though.[/spoiler] > > So, in short, I hate this episode. And everything it stands for. I wish it had a neck, so I could throttle it like a chicken. > > For the rest of the series… > > As for the ship itself…for a vessel that’s supposed to be so tight-knight and homey feeling, it looked a hell of a lot more cold and sterile than the _Enterprise-D_. > > And Janeway’s personality was like clamping a file between your teeth and pulling it out, slowly. She ain’t no Ivanova. > > On the other hand, I _did_ really like “Revulsion” and “Living Witness.” There were, to be fair, a few handfuls of episodes that I liked, but those last two stand out in my mind. Thank you for perfectly capturing the suckiness of this episode. Worst . . . episode . . . ever! Seriously, I think this might be the dumbest episode of Star Trek ever made. Anyone want to list some other contenders? (Not to hijack the thread or anything . . . ) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/48 "2004-08-07T11:23:12Z")
Just wanted to add my own little bit of weight to those who like Voyager. Before I exit to a hailstorm of tomatoes, I’d just like to say that not only is Janeway my favorite Enterprise Captain of all time, but I love her voice as well. […stop that!.. …ouch!.. …dammit!..] ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/49 "2004-08-07T11:26:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Just wanted to add my own little bit of weight to those who like Voyager. Before I exit to a hailstorm of tomatoes, I’d just like to say that not only is Janeway my favorite Enterprise Captain of all time, but I love her voice as well. > > […stop that!.. …ouch!.. …dammit!..] “Everyone fan out and search for Neelix’s lungs.” THAT is her voice to me. (I lie. Her voice to me is actually “I’m burning your child, Ejlert!”) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/50 "2004-08-07T11:38:33Z")
> [@masonite](#): > > “Everyone fan out and search for Neelix’s lungs.” That line’s good, I grant you, but it’s only a close second to Torres’ “Get the cheese to sickbay!” ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/51 "2004-08-07T13:48:50Z")
> [@masonite](#): > > (They should have substituted Michelle Forbes as Ensign Ro – perfect Makee tie-in, wouldn’t you think?) Well, they wanted her to play Major Kira in DS9, but she didn’t want to do Trek full time, IIRC. > [@](#): > > The African-American Vulcan was unbearable even for a Vulcan. I don’t think Tuvok was African _or_ American! 😛 I think I’ve said it before, but anyone who disliked Kate Mulgrew is Janeway would we well advised to find a copy of the bonus disc from the Season 1 box set. Take a good look at Genevieve Bujold’s turn as the first Captain Janeway, and tell me they didn’t dodge a bullet when she left on the first day of shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/52 "2004-08-07T14:37:01Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > I don’t think Tuvok was African _or_ American! 😛 He may not have been American, but he _must_ have had African heritage somehow. I mean, so there are dark-skinned Vulcans, fine. But how is it that the dark-skinned Vulcans _just happen_ to differ from light-skinned Vulcans in all the same superficial physical ways in which African humans differ from light-skinned humans? Parallel evolution? I don’t buy it. Not even all dark-skinned humans look like that. That dude is _African_. I figure that back in the days of the slave ships, the Vulcans sent around a spaceship or two of their own to get in on the action… ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/53 "2004-08-07T17:52:41Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > Well, they wanted her to play Major Kira in DS9, but she didn’t want to do Trek full time, IIRC. 'Course what I really meant was they wanted her to play Ro, and be Sisko’s first officer. She declined, and they came up with Major Kira instead. [/self-nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/54 "2004-08-07T17:56:59Z")
Are you sure she was intended as his Executive Officer? I know she was approached for a role on the series but an Ensign as an XO seems a bit preposterous. Then again, so does an Ensign on the Senior Staff and both VOY and ENT are guilty of this. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626/55 "2004-08-07T18:37:57Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Then again, so does an Ensign on the Senior Staff and both VOY and ENT are guilty of this. And TNG had a kid for a helmsman! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-voyager-get-better/258626.md?page=2)