# Does war on drugs cause more victims than drugs themselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720 "2012-10-24T12:46:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/21 "2012-10-25T06:12:34Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > More often called the “War \*on \*Drugs.” :smack: Oops. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > As far as the heavy 3 addictive drugs (meth, cocaine/crack, heroin), I really don’t know. I think the drugs do more harm, but again the drugs are more a symptom of a dysfunctional life. Also, many of the deaths caused by those drugs are caused by poor manufacturing quality and them being cut with dangerous substances. Making them a legal/decriminalized product manufactured by properly regulated pharmaceutical companies instead of some guy in his garage would solve that part of it. ---
**Author:** ![dataguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eada6e/32.png) [@dataguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dataguy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/22 "2012-10-25T11:29:25Z")
> [@Randvek](#): > > You’re the one playing fast-and-loose with the “facts.” You say that pot doesn’t kill anyone, and when someone cites facts, you say pot doesn’t “directly” kill anybody. And then someone says cigarettes don’t kill anybody, and you say sorry, cigarettes indirectly kill almost 400,000 people. > > Why do you insist on comparing direct pot deaths with indirect tobacco ones? This dishonestly doesn’t help your argument and it’s pretty transparent. These aren’t arguments, they’re statistics. Who has posted statistics showing pot-related deaths? Do you have statistics that show pot-related deaths? ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/23 "2012-10-25T18:10:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Does war on drugs cause more victims than drugs themselves? You are implying a false causality. If a cop is chasing me and I kill someone while trying to escape, is it my fault for trying to escape, or is it the cop’s fault for pursuing me? Same thing goes for the other examples. I don’t blame law enforcement when someone takes a dangerous drug. I blame the dealer for brewing and selling poison and I blame the drug user for being dumb enough to swallow it. So as far as I’m concerned, collateral casualties in this example are 0. Likewise, if someone gets killed during drug-related violence, blame the people who actually committed the homicide instead of the policy. They had a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/24 "2012-10-25T20:53:45Z")
I’m just gonna punch the air in front of me like this. If you get in the way, it’s your own fault. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Qwertol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertol)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/25 "2012-10-26T18:35:40Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > You are implying a false causality. > > If a cop is chasing me and I kill someone while trying to escape, is it my fault for trying to escape, or is it the cop’s fault for pursuing me? > > Same thing goes for the other examples. I don’t blame law enforcement when someone takes a dangerous drug. I blame the dealer for brewing and selling poison and I blame the drug user for being dumb enough to swallow it. So as far as I’m concerned, collateral casualties in this example are 0. > > Likewise, if someone gets killed during drug-related violence, blame the people who actually committed the homicide instead of the policy. They had a choice. Why you call drugs a poison? I mean everything is a poison in the right dose. So as long as you take drugs in right doses they are just substances like alcohol or coffee. There is no justification for using derogatory terms like “poison”… Another thing. If for example sex was illegal, and people were going to jail, would you blame the people for having it, or the government for creating and executing a fascist law? ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/26 "2012-10-26T20:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m just gonna punch the air in front of me like this. If you get in the way, it’s your own fault. False analogy. > [@](#): > > There is no justification for using derogatory terms like “poison”… Using illegal drugs is utterly contemptible. Manufacturing toxic home-brew variations of them and then peddling them for some quick cash even more so. People who manufacture illegal drugs are doing nothing but exploiting human misery. > [@](#): > > If for example sex was illegal, and people were going to jail, would you blame the people for having it, or the government for creating and executing a fascist law? You are demonstrating a logical fallacy by creating an absurd hypothetical rather than discussing the matter at hand. Drugs are not sex and the argument is not comparable. This is a variation of reductio ad absurdum. That said, I will indulge your hypothetical argument. If sex was illegal, I would probably be unhappy about that, but sex doesn’t kill anybody. It’s the mafia that provides the illegal sex, the gangs that have wars over the sex supply, the pimps who provide sex that involves life-threatening diseases (which, in this hypothetical situation, draws an analogue to contaminated drug supplies), and the people who, knowing all of this is happening, continue to throw money at them. The people who execute violence in their attempt to profit off the prohibited commodity (whatever that commodity may be) are the ones I blame the most. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Qwertol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertol)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/27 "2012-10-26T21:38:03Z")
Actually drugs and sex are comparable - people do them for exactly the same reason - pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/28 "2012-10-26T22:04:25Z")
> [@Qwertol](#): > > In the beginning I though that maybe it’s the question for Great Debates, but on the other hand it’s rather factual question that can be answered with sources. It’s not subjective, you can clearly say who was killed directly by the drugs and who was “collateral” victim… This is not an easily answerable question because part of it depends on how broadly you define “victim” and part of it depends on an unknown: how many people would be “victims” of any kind if we legalized drugs. The stupid, stupid, idiotic, stupid war on drugs has exacted a horrible toll on our population, disproportionately affecting blacks. We have managed to incarcerate a half million people in 2010 in this “war,” many of them from low-income backgrounds. State prisons are full of non-violent offenders. Who are the “victims,” though? Well, those of us opposed to this ridiculousness see the victims as the families left behind along with the prisoners themselves. I’m not big on broadly defining victim, but if someone goes to the big house for a personal choice of drug use, that person is a victim of societal stupidity, in my opinon. And it seems to me it’s OK to call the broken family victims too, because it’s insanity to put people in jail for that. Then there’s the whole layer of crime caused by the fact that making drugs illegal makes them expensive and dangerous to trade in. I would much prefer handing out all the free drugs some nitwit wants to use them, totally free. Let the crackheads bump themselves off, and let the social do gooders try to help them help not bump themselves off. But keep the law out of it. Criminalizing drug use causes way more harm to society than not criminalizing it. As to whether or not everyone harmed is a “victim,” well I guess that’s a matter of definition. But it is a matter of fact that we would be better off just legalizing drugs–at least in the sense that alcohol is legal–and diminishing the harm of recreational substances via some paradigm other than prosecuting a war. Nancy Reagan said it best. “Just say no.” Ronald Reagan (and Richard Nixon before him) said it worst. “War on drugs.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720/29 "2012-10-27T10:30:34Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Using illegal drugs is utterly contemptible. Manufacturing toxic home-brew variations of them and then peddling them for some quick cash even more so. People who manufacture illegal drugs are doing nothing but exploiting human misery. And how is your opinion of the situation relevant to a fact based forum? > [@](#): > > You are demonstrating a logical fallacy by creating an absurd hypothetical rather than discussing the matter at hand. Drugs are not sex and the argument is not comparable. This is a variation of reductio ad absurdum. So you know it’s reductio ad absurdum, but you don’t know that that is not a logical fallacy and is in fact a legitimate rhetorical technique? > [@](#): > > That said, I will indulge your hypothetical argument. If sex was illegal, I would probably be unhappy about that, but sex doesn’t kill anybody. It’s the mafia that provides the illegal sex, the gangs that have wars over the sex supply, the pimps who provide sex that involves life-threatening diseases (which, in this hypothetical situation, draws an analogue to contaminated drug supplies), and the people who, knowing all of this is happening, continue to throw money at them. > > The people who execute violence in their attempt to profit off the prohibited commodity (whatever that commodity may be) are the ones I blame the most. But all of that happens not because drugs are bad for you, but because are illegal. And thus they can’t be regulated. This subject has been discussed at length on this board. You’re not telling us anything we don’t know. And the decriminalization side always seems to win. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-war-on-drugs-cause-more-victims-than-drugs-themselves/638720.md?page=1)