That’s absurd.
What prominent people have ever claimed that there are more poor people in prison simply because they were “simply bad”.
Please provide cites for such a ridiculous claim.
We’ve already gone through our period of segregation and I doubt we’re going to revert back to it, especially once things become more even among the races. I think it’s reasonable to assume that with these changes, white privilege will become less of an issue and things will become more equal.
Apartheid wasn’t White privilege. It was outright White oppression, not the same thing at all.
I agree that it’s a ridiculous claim, but surely you don’t need a citation to know that there is an embarrassingly high number of people who think that people are poor due to some inherent inferiority.
It exists in the sense that white people have it easier than others. It is a horrible way to think about the issue, though, since the term implies that the white privilege is the bad thing, when, in fact, what we want is for every other race to be elevated to the same privileges.
White guilt also exists, but it’s not really a good thing. It’s never good to feel guilty about something that’s not your fault. Just be egalitarian yourself and fight for the rights of minorities. Don’t make yourself feel bad about what other people have done.
TOO LATE TO EDIT:
And white privilege is not the same thing as being “the default” in any sense of the word. That’s just a matter of demographics. It’s the same problem with heteronormativity.
If that were all the problem was, then I’d argue there’s no problem at all.
Many good points here. Yes, White privilege exists, and Macintosh’s foundational work in this area has been built upon by others like Michelle Fine.
As others have noted, privilege can be contextual. You can be temporarily disadvantaged in Koreatown if you don’t speak Korean - however, that’s an enclave, and the larger societal structure subverts this at a certain level of abstraction. It’s fairly easy to mitigate any disadvantage you might suffer in this situation if you’re White.
White privilege is not simply a matter of demographics. Whites still hold most positions of power in government and commerce in the US. There will have to be demographic shifts, and then folks of color obtaining decision-making positions with support from allies to actually augment structures to reduce societal bias (both aspects that disadvantage people of color and those that advantage Whites).
Another important observation about privilege is the invisible nature of it. There’s a reason why Macintosh calls it “the invisible knapsack.” Privilege is normalized by making it seem natural and translucent. You actually have to think about many of the privileges because they’re made to seem “just the way things naturally are.”
While I don’t have access to the privileges inherent in being White, I do have privileges in being male, well educated, English speaking, heterosexual, and able bodied. I can’t deny or remove privilege. But I can acknowledge that I hold these privileges, and work to ensure that those without this privilege are given fair opportunities to participate.
Honestly, I’m amazed that there’s any resistance to the idea of White privilege in the US.
Well, as the first reply in this thread pointed out, not being discriminated against isn’t a privilege. It may just be a matter of semantics but if we’re going to use any term, I think right is less misleading.
Secondly, in the US you don’t need racism to explain why far fewer black people are in positions of power or are wealthy. The US has one of the lowest social mobility in the developed world, so if whites were wealthier in the last generation they probably will be in this one.
That’s not to claim that that is the explanation, I’m just saying you can’t point to income inequality and just from that conclude racism abounds.
And note that this is still different from white privilege. If you were white but born in a trailer park, your skin colour is not going to pay for private schooling.
Of course it is.
I don’t think so, I think it’s more so - rights, in general usage, tend to imply some legal framework or else the whole natural rights debate. Whereas “privilege” as used in the sense of “White privilege” can be considered closer to some of its less legalistic related terms, such as “birthright” or “courtesy” or “favour” or “advantage” - or even “chance” or “freedom”.
The white does have an advantage going in the door. Minorities can do things to minimize this by adapting more mainstream styles of speech and general style and appearance, not fair I realize but effective. Our president has been a wonderful example of this that has allready started paying dividends to young minorities who choose to emulate his strategy.
What you call “mainstream” is actually white.
So, in other words, minorities can take advantage of (a small part) of white privilege by dressing and acting white.
Also, just the fact that people consider white to be the same as mainstream, and it’s accepted as naturally and obviously better than minority culture is another point in favor of the existence of white privilege.
Part of white privilege is to be raised secure in the knowledge that your lifestyle is considered correct and mainstream, and to be represented in media as the default. Minorities have to abandon the culture they were rained in and adapt to another, learning the rules as adults and never fitting in as well as someone who’s been raised in that culture since birth. White people never consider this, unless they are moving to a foreign country or something. That’s a privilege.
I agree with you, I never suggested it was fair, I did suggest it was a successful strategy for overcomming white priviledge. Mainstream is mostly white because we are a majority. But all the other cultures have successfully integrated into this culture some less than others.
I wasn’t trying to be accusatory; I was pointing out how closer examination of common assumptions shows the existence of white privilege.
But I have to disagree that white culture is considered synonymous with mainstream culture because white are a majority. I’d say it’s less that whites are a majority in the populace, and more that white almost exclusively hold all the positions of power in the society, including business, politics, and media. And I also have to point out that the assumption that integration into white culture is the (obvious) best path for a minority group is further evidence for white privilege.
I’m not in any way saying you are a racist or something for using these terms. I’m saying that the structural racism in our society is so pervasive, we can’t even see it. It’s like asking a fish to explain water; how can they even understand there’s anything else? And the fact that white people can go their whole lives and never think about structural racism? That’s a privilege.
I agree with you here also. I think a source for another good topic might be the concept of fairness in general from both sides of the plate, being treated fairly and treating others fairly. I don't know anyone who doesn't feel angry when not treated fairly or even if they perceive un fairness. Some forms of unfairness are ingrained into us at a very early age and we learn to accept them. Thats all another topic.
No, it isn’t. Not being treated unfairly is not a privilege.
It would be like saying that not being robbed today was a windfall.
Try looking at it this way: if you’re white and you get caught doing a crime, you’re less likely to be convicted by the justice system and if you do, chances are, you’ll do less time than other groups simply because the color of your skin. If you’re white and male, you’re more likely be President, be a politician, or have great wealth, home ownership than some minorities. Cool, huh? Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if white homeless people fare better in getting change from a passerby than a black homeless person. In other words, there’s a indeed a “windfall” for being a white male and to not recognize is kind of bizarre but frankly, not at all surprising.
I partially disagree with the concept of white privilege insofar as I emphatically believe it only applies to white men. I think, for the most part, white females are sitting in the same canoe with the minorities, though I suspect most would express skepticism to that belief. In any case, the “controversy” of white privilege is sustained by some white men who are taught to believe that what they’ve achieved and earned is a reflection of their talent and only their talent. Further, the idea of the color of their skin being a major factor in their past or present success does not register with them and likely never will. I think it’s an ego-protection thing, but I’m not a psychologist. When talking about white privilege, I think it’s good to bring up Dan Quayle, John Boehner, Dennis Kucinich, and Scott Walker. You take their politics aside and replace them with black men: would they still have their jobs? Hell no. Scott Walker, for example, doesn’t even have a college degree yet he was elected State Governor, twice. You won’t find a minority counterpart past or present in U.S history that was elected Governor with a high school diploma, even Sarah Palin managed to complete 120 credits of coursework, bless her heart.
Finally, serious question, is anyone here good at stats? Help me out: How do you set up the probability of 43 presidents and 43 vice presidents all being white males when 49% of population is male and 51% population is female. Ok, that might be not fair since blacks and women weren’t allowed to vote. Instead, let’s start in the 1930’s to give women a decade head-start on suffrage: what would be the probability of 11 presidents and 11 vice presidents all being white males when 49% population is male and 51% population if female. If you add in the blacks (~10%) and the other minorities (~20%) into the statistical formula, that would be awesome. Thanks, I appreciate it.
- Honesty
You’re missing my point.
I am not saying that there is no white privilege. What I am saying is there is a difference between being treated fairly and being the beneficiary of positive discrimination.
If I do an exam, and it’s marked fairly then that’s fair, end of.
If it is later revealed that someone else’s exam was unfairly marked down, am I now “privileged”? No.
It’s still not that simple. As one example, 72% of all Presidents of the United States have served in one branch of the military or another. If we assume that there’s a causal relationship there (i.e. serving in the military makes you more likely to be elected President), then it’s only natural that men (who have often been forced to join the military) would benefit from this more often than women. But you’d have to be a complete asshole to claim that being in danger of being enslaved to fight and die for the government is an example of male privilege.
[QUOTE=Honesty;16381294
Finally, serious question, is anyone here good at stats? Help me out: How do you set up the probability of 43 presidents and 43 vice presidents all being white males when 49% of population is male and 51% population is female. Ok, that might be not fair since blacks and women weren’t allowed to vote. Instead, let’s start in the 1930’s to give women a decade head-start on suffrage: what would be the probability of 11 presidents and 11 vice presidents all being white males when 49% population is male and 51% population if female. If you add in the blacks (~10%) and the other minorities (~20%) into the statistical formula, that would be awesome. Thanks, I appreciate it.
- Honesty[/QUOTE]
Dude, read a history book about Women’s Rights, seriously.
Sure it is. it’s my privilege as a white person to not have to worry about that sort of thing. It should be everyone’s, but it’s not.