# Does witchcraft/magic/wtc work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994 "2003-07-30T21:41:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BlackPheonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BlackPheonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackPheonix)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/1 "2003-07-30T21:41:30Z")
So, does it? Its perfectly possible that these people are misled or suffer from severely overactive imaginations. So if there any hard proof that magic or witchcraft work or not? I am quite open-minded myself regardless of my beliefs… but these days one must not believe 99% of what they hear or see. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/2 "2003-07-30T21:46:09Z")
There is as much proof that witchcraft and magic “work” as there is that prayer “works.” (None) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/3 "2003-07-30T21:54:07Z")
Well, if you ever _do_ find an instance of any of this stuff working, there’s [$1 million](http://randi.org/research/index.html) in it for you. I’ll go out on a limb, however, and state categorically that nothing of the kind exists, at least not as its practitioners would have us believe. ---
**Author:** ![Brad\_Amundsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dbc845/32.png) [@Brad\_Amundsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brad_Amundsen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/4 "2003-07-30T22:08:17Z")
Super naturally"no"…Scientifically"yes" Many things now explained by scientist were once thought witchcraft.Many magicians practice slight of hand. many chemists,and other scientists can do mind boggling things by scientiic means.All considered magic to some, but not supernatural. Witchcraft now is practiced as a religion: [http://www.shadowdrake.com/HSDwitchFAQ.html](http://www.shadowdrake.com/HSDwitchFAQ.html) So does witchcraft work for the people who practice it? I’d say in their mind yes, in my mind I think it is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![gorillaboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dc4da7/32.png) [@gorillaboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gorillaboy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/5 "2003-07-30T22:29:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlackPheonix \* > \*\*So, does it? Its perfectly possible that these people are misled or suffer from severely overactive imaginations. So if there any hard proof that magic or witchcraft work or not? I am quite open-minded myself regardless of my beliefs… but these days one must not believe 99% of what they hear or see. \*\* I would say that witchcraft “works” as well as any other religion. As for magic… Nope. ---
**Author:** ![BlackPheonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BlackPheonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackPheonix)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/6 "2003-07-30T22:29:57Z")
Come on, we ain’t got no wicken’s here? I’ve browsed through some books… all seems very subjective. Is that “cursed” person really having worse luck than anyone else? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![BlackPheonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BlackPheonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackPheonix)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/7 "2003-07-30T22:34:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gorillaboy \* > \*\*I would say that witchcraft “works” as well as any other religion. As for magic… > > Nope. \*\* I am not talking about religion. In all I don’t believe in any popular religion, not to say I believe in nothing though. By witch craft I don’t mean the religion so much as the product. Whether or not anyone at any time has been able to practice “magic” “sourcery” or “witchcraft” is my problem. Many people claim it but so far no proof to be found… granted witchcraft as been by-and-large debunked . ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/8 "2003-07-30T22:48:39Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **BlackPhoenix**. Yes, the “cursed” person is just having a run of bad luck. If, however, he manages to convince himself the curse is real, there’s no telling what kind of crap he might get himself into and then later blame on the curse. Those seemingly subjective stories you read are mostly hype and sometimes outright lies. For example, the discoverers of King Tut’s tomb lived to an average age of [70](http://www.cronaca.com/archives/000205.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/9 "2003-07-30T22:49:51Z")
Haven’t there been studies that show the efficacy of prayer, or at least religious faith, as far as healing goes? I’m unaware of any studies showing witchcraft or magic having any particular effect on anything. ---
**Author:** ![BlackPheonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BlackPheonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackPheonix)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/10 "2003-07-30T22:57:57Z")
I wouldn’t put much credit to those studies: whether you believe in God or not you can’t prove definitively that prayer works because thats not the nature of it. Witchcraft is supposed to have an effect, prayer is not. Not to say it doesn’t work but that proving or disproving it would be beyond out scope. But thats a whole other issue. What about ancient magic? Druids and the like… I’[m just trying to debunk this but can’t find anything scientific. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/11 "2003-07-30T23:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Haven’t there been studies that show the efficacy of prayer, or at least religious faith, as far as healing goes? > > I’m unaware of any studies showing witchcraft or magic having any particular effect on anything. \*\* There was at least one well-publicized study, which puported to show a definite link between prayer and recovery from serious illness. However this study has been called into question, not least of all because the person responsible for deciding which patients got prayed for and which did not was the receptionist of of one of the doctors running the study, effectively destroying the double-blindness necessary for a truly unbiased trial. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/12 "2003-07-31T01:44:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlackPheonix \* > \*\*I wouldn’t put much credit to those studies: whether you believe in God or not you can’t prove definitively that prayer works because thats not the nature of it. Witchcraft is supposed to have an effect, prayer is not. Not to say it doesn’t work but that proving or disproving it would be beyond out scope. But thats a whole other issue. > \*\* What are you talking about? If you show a consistent correlation between patients that are prayed over and faster recovery times, and you eliminate or test for other possible causes, you’ve gone a hell of a long way towards showing prayer works. And I don’t know what motivates you to declare that witchcraft is supposed to have an effect and prayer is not; so far as I can see, both are “supposed” to have an effect. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*There was at least one well-publicized study, which puported to show a definite link between prayer and recovery from serious illness. However this study has been called into question, not least of all because the person responsible for deciding which patients got prayed for and which did not was the receptionist of of one of the doctors running the study, effectively destroying the double-blindness necessary for a truly unbiased trial. \*\* This is an excellent example of how NOT to run a study. If someone knows which group is which, then they can consciously or unconsciously influence the results. So… so far as you’re aware, this flawed study is the only one out there regarding the efficacy of prayer? If so, then we’re back to square one as regards prayer working… that is, no evidence at all. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/13 "2003-07-31T02:14:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*This is an excellent example of how NOT to run a study. If someone knows which group is which, then they can consciously or unconsciously influence the results. So… so far as you’re aware, this flawed study is the only one out there regarding the efficacy of prayer? If so, then we’re back to square one as regards prayer working… that is, no evidence at all. > > - Rick \*\* This is the only serious study of which I am aware. James Randi devotes quite a bit of space to discussing it on his website, but his search engine is lacking, to put it kindly, and i can’t find the article. [Here](http://www.time.com/time/columnist/printout/0,8816,193084,00.html) is a far less comprehensive Time article on this same study. ---
**Author:** ![starfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/87869e/32.png) [@starfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starfish)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/14 "2003-07-31T02:22:12Z")
Magic does work. I will give you a demonstration. All of you log on at 8am CDT and watch the SDMB come to a halt. If you don’t log on, you will never know, and I will get reasonable response times. Either way, I win. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/15 "2003-07-31T02:48:53Z")
Ah, I found one of Randi’s articles on the prayer study: > [@](#): > > Furthermore, one especially odd feature of the experimental design was having the chaplain’s secretary be responsible for the assignment of patients to the two groups – according to whether their chart numbers were odd or even. Certainly a computer could have done at least as well and with more assurance of objectivity. These are just two examples of what seems to me a general disregard or denial of obvious security issues in research of this kind. From [here.](http://www.randi.org/jr/01-13-2000.html) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/16 "2003-07-31T04:35:19Z")
You spelled your own username wrong. ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/17 "2003-07-31T05:02:49Z")
Does spelling work? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/18 "2003-07-31T05:03:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hammerbach \* > \*\*Does spelling work? \*\* It mite. ---
**Author:** ![hammerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hammerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammerbach)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/19 "2003-07-31T05:05:58Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **BlackPheonix**! You are taking steps to clarify your view of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994/20 "2003-07-31T05:25:51Z")
As far as Wiccans go, I am not one but know several and was roommates with one for a bit. We’d been friends for years and years, so we would end up having long discussions with much less defensiveness than otherwise you’d expect. Anyway, here’s a paraphrased conversation: > [@](#): > > I’m having some people over tonight to do \ > > Full moon already? Time flies. So what is it you guys _do_, anyway? > > We tap into the energies that are all around us to affect change in our lives. Tonight is the waxing moon, so tonight we will call the energies to _bring in_ things like strength and good luck. During the waning moon, we ask for bad energies to be _taken away_ from us. These bad energies can cloud the mind and cause us to fall into bad habits > > But why the moon? > > The moon is a source of great energies. The phases of the moon have a huge effect on all things of the earth. > > Wait a minute. So let’s say it’s a thousand years from now, and humans have expanded to other planets. Let’s say one of those planets has no moon at all. Would it still work? > > That’s a good question. I honestly don’t know. He’s a real nice guy…very grounded, if a little wacky. I don’t know if his beliefs are representative of all Wiccans any more than any single Christian is representative of Christianity. But to answer the question, yes, both witchcraft and prayer work. They work exactly in the manner of “the power of positive thinking.” To put it more bluntly, they both offer comfort to decent people who are justifiably scared living in this big, scary world. Prayer in the form of chanting (intended to induce the alpha state similar to meditation) and meditation in general are also supposed to have benefits, but I know nothing about meditation other than the nifty term “alpha state.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-witchcraft-magic-wtc-work/191994.md?page=2)