# Does your car insurance have STD coverage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 10, 2022, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953 "2022-06-10T03:58:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/21 "2022-06-10T16:39:55Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This right here is the FU GEICO moment. > [@TriPolar](#): > > If a court holds that car insurance must cover transmission of diseases inside the car then the courts are going to by flooded with cases going as far back as the law will allow. Right, and the “FU” is to everyone who buys car insurance. Higher premiums will inevitably result if a precedent is set for ridiculous payouts like this. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/22 "2022-06-10T16:58:38Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Higher premiums will inevitably result if a precedent is set for ridiculous payouts like this. There’s nothing ridiculous about an insurance company getting hit hard when it fails to defend its insured. If they’re right and this is not covered, they’ll win. If they’re wrong and they breached their duty to defend, then they get what they deserve. I don’t believe extra contractual liability can be used as a basis for raising rates generally. If they have to pay it, it comes out of their massive profits. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/23 "2022-06-10T17:05:28Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There’s nothing ridiculous about an insurance company getting hit hard when it fails to defend its insured. Failure to defend does not make a ridiculous arbitration decision any less ridiculous. If there’s a problem with insurers failing to defend, ridiculous and inappropriate payouts are not the way to address it. > [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t believe extra contractual liability can be used as a basis for raising rates generally. If they have to pay it, it comes out of their massive profits. This is not the way a free market economy works. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/24 "2022-06-10T17:08:46Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This is not the way a free market economy works. Insurance rates are heavily regulated by the states. > **[How Insurance Rates Are Regulated](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/how-insurance-rates-are-regulated-4091196)** > > All states regulate the rates used in some types of business insurance. However, the extent of regulation varies widely from state to state. Learn more here. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/25 "2022-06-10T17:12:15Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Failure to defend does not make a ridiculous arbitration decision any less ridiculous I think the argument is creative, but not ridiculous. Was the couple “using” the automobile? I think they were. > Automobile liability insurance protects against claims for bodily injury and property damage that arise out of the use, maintenance, or ownership of an automobile. Under the insurance contract, the insurer agrees to defend and indemnify the insured with regard to any lawsuit asserting a covered claim. > **[Legal Insights Blog](https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/insights/legal/)** ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/26 "2022-06-10T17:13:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This silliness seems to hinge on the technicality that GEICO for some bizarre reason agreed to arbitration Corporations usually favor arbitration because arbitrated settlements are generally biased towards the corporations. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/27 "2022-06-10T17:14:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Insurance rates are heavily regulated by the states. There is careful regulation of insurance _practices_, but a regulator cannot force private companies to participate in an unprofitable marketplace. In a free market economy, prices are ultimately kept in check by competition among insurers. If there is a real prospect of unlimited liability for any and all adverse events that take place in the vicinity of a vehicle, premiums _will_ go up. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/28 "2022-06-10T17:18:32Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > There is careful regulation of insurance _practices_ , but a regulator cannot force private companies to participate in an unprofitable marketplace. State’s regulate auto insurance _rates._ (see my link above) They look at claims history and, of course, allow a reasonable profit. They do not, as I understand it, allow extra contractual payments to be used in the calculation of how much the company pays in claims. This was entirely preventable by GEICO. They took their chances and lost. They could have defended, or even paid, and it would have cost a lot less then they’re now paying to squirm out of this mess. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/29 "2022-06-10T17:20:22Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I think the argument is creative, but not ridiculous. Give me a break. What proportion of people buying vehicle insurance would expect it to cover $5 million liability for an STD contracted while fucking in the car, and would be _willing to pay extra_ for that coverage? Because that’s what’s at stake here, not some fantasy of “screwing the big corporation”. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/30 "2022-06-10T17:24:19Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > They look at claims history and, of course, allow a reasonable profit. They do not, as I understand it, allow extra contractual payments to be used in the calculation of how much the company pays in claims. If a precedent is set for this kind of liability, the money has to come from somewhere. You can’t just magically say “it’s not part of the p&l of the business”. You cannot regulate an unprofitable business into profitability. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/31 "2022-06-10T17:28:16Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > What proportion of people buying vehicle insurance would expect it to pay for an STD contracted while fucking in the car, and would be _willing to pay extra_ for that coverage? I think people want broad coverage. You get sued, you tell your insurance company to handle it. They refuse. That sucks. You look at your policy, it says they will pay any claims arising out of the use of your automobile. Maybe it’s covered and maybe it isn’t. A smart insurance company issues a “reservation of rights” letter, (protecting itself from paying if they lose) and _defends_ their customer like they promised. A company that doesn’t want to play it safe lets its customer fend for himself. He gets hammered in arbitration because no one was defending him (I assume this, but perhaps he paid for a lawyer out of his own pocket) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/32 "2022-06-10T17:31:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > He gets hammered in arbitration because no one was defending him So absent optimal defense, you think it’s an arbitrator’s job to allow any claim, however preposterous? Isn’t the job of an arbitrator supposed to be to deliver a _fair_ result without a requirement for hiring a team of expensive litigators every time there’s dispute? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/33 "2022-06-10T17:33:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I think people want broad coverage. I think people want sensible coverage and value for money, they do not want to fund massive whimsical payouts to people who catch STDs fucking in the back seat. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/34 "2022-06-10T17:40:08Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So absent optimal defense, you think it’s an arbitrator’s job to allow any claim, however preposterous? I assume the arbitrator was simply deciding whether defendant was responsible for giving plaintiff herpes and assessing damages. Whether the claim was covered is another matter entirely and that’s what the federal court will decide. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/35 "2022-06-10T17:53:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I assume the arbitrator was simply deciding whether defendant was responsible for giving plaintiff herpes and assessing damages. Whether the claim was covered is another matter entirely and that’s what the federal court will decide. So your suggestion that the problem here is the insurer did not defend is without foundation. Unless you grant the preposterous notion that the vehicle insurer is liable, why should they be expected to pay for mounting a defense at this arbitration? This is what _umbrella_ liability insurance is for, not vehicle insurance. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/36 "2022-06-10T17:53:40Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I read the actual [decision](https://www.courts.mo.gov/file.jsp?id=187183) - and someone please correct me if I am wrong but it seems that not only did GEICO _not_ agree to the arbitration, but GEICO was not even a party to the arbitration. > > It seems that at some point, the woman approached GEICO with her claim and proposed a settlement. GEICO denied coverage and the woman and the insured agreed to arbitration , presumably after she sued him. Listening to the Lehto video linked in the original post, it seems like their response should have been “it’s not covered and if you dispute that, then we will defend the insured” rather than just saying “it’s not covered”. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/37 "2022-06-10T17:59:22Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Unless you grant the preposterous notion that the vehicle insurance is liable I simply don’t find that notion preposterous. _When in doubt, defend_. If you have no doubt, don’t defend and take your chances that a court somewhere down the line might disagree with you. Language defining the scope of coverage is broadly interpreted for public policy reasons. Auto insurance protects you if you’re sued for something related to your use of your car. Broadly defined, that’s what this guy was doing. He got sued, he should have been defended. I see an argument that this act was _not_ covered by the policy, but the duty to defend kicks in if there is the _slightest chance_ that there is coverage. (again, for public policy reasons) That’s why smart insurance companies would have defended under a reservation of rights. They screwed up. I shed no tears. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/38 "2022-06-10T18:07:19Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I simply don’t find that notion preposterous. Well we simply disagree on this. What you _cannot_ claim, however, is that the only person this kind of nonsense hurts is some big corporation. Insurance premiums ultimately reflect the risk of payout. So you need to make a convincing case that people buying vehicle insurance want and expect to pay for this. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/39 "2022-06-10T18:17:11Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I simply don’t find that notion preposterous. It sure looks preposterous to me. Is there anybody else (besides @Procrustus) here who thinks it isn’t preposterous? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953/40 "2022-06-10T18:18:20Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So you need to make a convincing case that people buying vehicle insurance want and expect to pay for this. The next time it will be something else we haven’t contemplated. No one is going to say “yes, I want coverage that pays for STD exposure.” But I do think people want their insurance companies to step up when they get sued. Broad coverage is something people _should_ be willing to pay for. (What will probably happen is that exclusions will be written to explicitly exclude things like damages flowing from having sex in a parked car from the coverage. And we wonder why the policies are so long) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/does-your-car-insurance-have-std-coverage/965953.md?page=3)