# Doesn't Lebanon have an army or air force? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 23, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634 "2024-09-23T23:05:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/61 "2024-09-25T16:40:00Z")
A plucky, embattled people who made a difficult migration to cultivate a homeland amid less-civilized neighbors determined to wipe them out, and who became even more determined to survive after a significant portion of their people perished in concentration camps. Of course they built nuclear weapons and fought war ugly yet necessary. Who could rationally not agree? Of course I’m describing South Africa. Israel would never be anything like that [Inside the Movement to Settle Southern Lebanon](https://jewishcurrents.org/inside-the-movement-to-settle-southern-lebanon-uri-tzafon-israel) A small group of nobodies, but what stops them from gaining traction in today’s Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/62 "2024-09-25T16:48:34Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > [Inside the Movement to Settle Southern Lebanon](https://jewishcurrents.org/inside-the-movement-to-settle-southern-lebanon-uri-tzafon-israel) A small group of nobodies, but what stops them from gaining traction in today’s Israel? This is really, really funny. Hamas and Hezbollah: ‘The Jews must all be driven out.’ You: ‘oh no! What if Israel decides to drive out all the Arabs?’ And then you wonder why Israelis don’t take your criticism seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/63 "2024-09-25T16:50:06Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > [Inside the Movement to Settle Southern Lebanon](https://jewishcurrents.org/inside-the-movement-to-settle-southern-lebanon-uri-tzafon-israel) A small group of nobodies, but what stops them from gaining traction in today’s Israel? Israel occupied southern Lebanon for 18 years, from 1982 to 2000, and didn’t found a single settlement - even during the height of the settlement building period in the Territories. What more proof do you need? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/64 "2024-09-25T16:53:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > I’m not really interested in your desire to crucify Israel for America’s Original Sin, so I’m gonna bow out of further discussion with you in this thread. > > As usual, Christians want Jews to die for their sins. A better analogy would be from twenty years ago, when our British cousins were telling us “yes, we saw the towers come down too. And some of us were in there. But we want to stabilize Afghanistan while you Americans are going kill-crazy with drone strikes wiping out entire villages.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/65 "2024-09-25T16:58:53Z")
The difference is that we fucking _live_ in Afghanistan. It’s not some bullshit war halfway around the world; it’s a war for our homes and for the lives of our families. America can - and did - just walk away from the war with a shrug and a sigh; we can’t. Any comparison with the Afghan war is utterly baseless and spurious; we’re fighting a completely different species of struggle here. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/66 "2024-09-25T16:58:54Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > A better analogy would be from twenty years ago, when our British cousins were telling us “yes, we saw the towers come down too. And some of us were in there. But we want to stabilize Afghanistan while you Americans are going kill-crazy with drone strikes wiping out entire villages.”. Hot damn, this Bush Fatigue or collective Iraq PTSD is fucking annoying. Just because YOU bungled up a pointless war two decades ago doesn’t mean that the entire concept of just war is invalidated. America needs to get the fuck over itself and stop moping in the corner before Russia and China irrevocably fuck up the world, as you’re currently allowing them to do in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/67 "2024-09-25T17:00:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > America can - and did - just walk away from the war with a shrug and a sigh; we can’t. > > Any comparison with the Afghan war is utterly baseless and spurious; we’re fighting a completely different species of struggle here. Something in the American psyche completely broke after Iraq and Afghanistan. People on both the Right and Left no longer believe that war can ever be justified (maybe they say it can in theory, but they can’t come to say that any example, save maybe WW2, qualifies; and many are iffy even on that). If the Russians invaded Alaska tomorrow, we’d have plenty of useful idiots demanding a ceasefire and proclaiming that Alaska was never ours to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/68 "2024-09-25T17:00:56Z")
“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?” And history has shown that there’s been scant consideration for the Jews, so they very much need be for themselves. But Hillel also warns of making one’s self-interest the only interest. There really is a line there. And you really could cross it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/69 "2024-09-25T17:01:47Z")
It’s like how the American conclusion from Vietnam was that war is pointless and that they couldn’t have won anyway. No, the fact is that you lost. Deal with it and stop making excuses. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/70 "2024-09-25T20:10:02Z")
Moderating: > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > > > But it’s not ethnic cleansing when Hezbollah targets Israelis? > > No, it’s attempted ethnic cleansing when they do it too. They just don’t have the power to _actually_ carry out campaigns of ethnic cleansing and genocide, while Israel does. Please don’t make controversial accusations of ethnic cleansing/genocide outside the pit. By “controversial” i mean any accusation which a significant number of posters on this board are on both sides of. I just don’t believe that’s a discussion that can be held productively outside of the pit, and those discussions cause significant problems in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/71 "2024-09-25T20:12:37Z")
Moderating: > [@Babale](#): > > > [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > > > The name for that is “ethnic cleansing.” > > > > But it’s not ethnic cleansing when Hezbollah targets Israelis? > > The problem there is that you think of those Israelis as _human_. That’s a mistake, you should think of them as settler-colonialist monsters who feast on Palestinian blood. Then it makes so much more sense! Hezbollah causing thousands of Israelis to leave their homes for months now and raining rockets on their houses isn’t _ethnic cleansing_, it’s ~~_righteous cleansing_~~ decolonization. This post is absolutely inappropriate for MPSIMS. I know moderators don’t always show up immediately, but just report and wait for moderator action. This may be a warning and/or a thread ban. I’m going to run it by some other mods. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/72 "2024-09-25T20:15:47Z")
---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/73 "2024-09-25T20:16:35Z")
Reading further, this just got worse and worse. Topic closed for now. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/74 "2024-09-26T15:02:56Z")
Moderating: After consultation with the OP, this thread will remain closed due to its devolution into name-calling and sniping. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634/75 "2024-09-26T17:55:18Z")
Moderating: This is a formal warning for engaging in multiple personal attacks outlined below: > [@Babale](#): > > But I get it, that’s a complex view of the world and it’s easier to say “WAR BAD!”. > [@Babale](#): > > The problem there is that you think of those Israelis as _human_. That’s a mistake, you should think of them as settler-colonialist monsters who feast on Palestinian blood. > [@Babale](#): > > Whenever you’re ready to discuss the real Israel, instead of the imaginary one in your head, I’d be happy to do so. > [@Babale](#): > > When I say that you view the whole world through one myopic lens, you don’t have to prove me right THAT hard. > [@Babale](#): > > This is really, really funny. > > Hamas and Hezbollah: ‘The Jews must all be driven out.’ > > You: ‘oh no! What if Israel decides to drive out all the Arabs?’ > > And then you wonder why Israelis don’t take your criticism seriously. > [@Babale](#): > > Just because YOU bungled up a pointless war two decades ago doesn’t mean that the entire concept of just war is invalidated. We understand that this is a very personal and difficult discussion for you, but that’s not a basis to engage in the sort of posts quoted. If you feel someone has overstepped the mark, please flag the post and let moderators deal with it. The sorts of statements made above are never acceptable in the MPSIMS forum. Feel free to go crazy in the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-lebanon-have-an-army-or-air-force/1007634.md?page=3)