# Doesn't "slain" usually imply murder?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 23, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979 "2007-12-23T00:10:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/1 "2007-12-23T00:10:36Z")
I saw this headline on the front page of the online Chicago Sun-Times a few minutes ago:
[Astronaut, family plan service for slain mom](http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/702050,cst-nws-astro22.article)
and thought, how terrible, an astronaut’s mother was murdered? But when clicking through to the story (which has a different title, btw) the astronaut’s mother (Rose Tani, mom to Daniel Tani, who’s aboard the Space Station now) died when she drove her car around a school bus onto train tracks, and was hit by a train.
I’m sorry, that’s not being “slain” to me, that’s…well, since it’s not the Pit and she was 90 years old, I won’t say, but it’s not being slain. It’s being killed, though “Astronaut, family plan service for killed mom” doesn’t sound right either, and “…dead mom” sounds too morbid.
Does “slain” have a broader meaning than I was aware of or did someone screw up at the Sun-Times? What better word could have been used in that particular sentence?
(ETA whew! caught the infer/imply mistake just in time!)
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### Author:  [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/2 "2007-12-23T00:35:55Z")
I see your point. Maybe “late mother”? “Mourning the loss of his mother”?
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### Author:  [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/3 "2007-12-23T00:39:25Z")
I&ve seen it newspaper headlines fairly regularly in this sense. (Death must be sudden and violent though.)
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/4 "2007-12-23T00:43:54Z")
Maybe I associate “slain” with murdered people because I’ve heard it used such so often. Slain journalist Daniel Pearl. Slain student nurses. Slain college roommates, things like that. This is the first time I’ve heard it used for an accident victim. I’ll bet it wouldn’t make the poor train engineer feel better to hear that she was “slain” though. It sure wasn’t his fault.
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### Author:  [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/5 "2007-12-23T00:52:25Z")
It needs to be intentionally done at the hand of another person. That is not always murder.
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### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/6 "2007-12-23T00:57:19Z")
The headline writer was bustin’ a rhyme. 'Cuz she was slain by a train.
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/7 "2007-12-23T00:59:37Z")
[QUOTE=Kevbo]
It needs to be intentionally done at the hand of another person. That is not always murder.
[/QUOTE]
But the train engineer didn’t intentionally hit her, he had no say in the matter, so that doesn’t work.
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### Author:  [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/8 "2007-12-23T01:24:49Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42]
The headline writer was bustin’ a rhyme. 'Cuz she was slain by a train.
[/QUOTE]
Lawls! I didn’t even click the link to see that she was killed by a train. I think the word “slain” is OK then.
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### Author:  [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/9 "2007-12-23T01:34:37Z")
The dictionary just says “to kill violently”, with no mention of murderous intent. That matches what I understand the word to mean, and I wouldn’t have a problem with the the headline.
ETA:
And not necessarily by a person. One can be slain by an animal or act of God.
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### Author:  [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/10 "2007-12-23T01:45:57Z")
I’ve always understood the word to include implied intent, whether it be a serial murderer or a rabid weasel doing the killing.
I checked some dictionary links and they seem to back up **yabob** , but I would certainly have had the same confusion finding out it was train-crossing related.
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/11 "2007-12-23T04:45:40Z")
1: to kill violently, wantonly, or in great numbers; broadly : to strike down : kill
From [Merriam-Webster Online](http://www.m-w.com).
So first of all, it doesn’t have to be a person who slays, and second of all, intent is not needed. Both are requirements of murder. So the assumption that murder is involved anytime someone or something is slain is incorrect.
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### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/12 "2007-12-23T04:54:47Z")
Huh, I learn something new every day here at the SDMB! Let’s hope that if the train driver sees the headline, he’ll have smart people around to explain that it doesn’t mean he murdered her.
Thanks everyone.
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### Author:  [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/13 "2007-12-23T05:14:35Z")
You can also find people “slain” by natural disasters in newspaper accounts. That usage has precedent as far back as the King James bible:
> [@](#):
>
> And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Revelation 11:13
I suppose that you can observe that God is doing the slaying, using an earthquake as his tool in that passage, but newspapers have been known to say things like “6 slain as tornado touches down in trailer court”.
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### Author:  [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/14 "2007-12-23T09:20:08Z")
It’s kind of like “smite”. The word simply means “hit” or “strike”. But in Western culture we’re familiar with smiting being something a god does, so it carries connotations of being extremely serious. (In Dungeons & Dragons, the paladin has a special ability called “Smite Evil”, where he can deal extra damage to an evil creature. Technically, anybody smacking somebody else is “smiting” them, but when the paladin or a god does it, it’s “Smiting” with a capital S.
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### Author:  [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/15 "2007-12-23T12:10:05Z")
I have seen “Hundreds slain by tornado” or “family of four slain by flash flood” or “Hunter slain by bear.” So for me it does not imply murder or even intent.
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### Author:  [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/16 "2007-12-23T12:23:52Z")
The other interesting thing is that “slay” or any of its derived forms like “slain” are used in contemporary English mostly in newspaper headlines. I think that I was told once that they were so used only in American newspaper headlines. Is it true that “slain” isn’t used in non-American headlines?
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### Author:  [@Rashaverak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashaverak)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/17 "2007-12-23T13:13:24Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner]
The other interesting thing is that “slay” or any of its derived forms like “slain” are used in contemporary English mostly in newspaper headlines. I think that I was told once that they were so used only in American newspaper headlines. Is it true that “slain” isn’t used in non-American headlines?
[/QUOTE]
Just anecdotally, I’ve never seen it in a British newspaper headline. To me “slain” has an archaic ring to it; I only ever seem to encounter it in pre C20 literature.
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### Author:  [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/18 "2007-12-23T13:44:20Z")
[QUOTE=Rashaverak]
Just anecdotally, I’ve never seen it in a British newspaper headline. To me “slain” has an archaic ring to it; I only ever seem to encounter it in pre C20 literature.
[/QUOTE]
Really? I see it a bit in Australian newspapers, but I must say it does have that air of one of those words that reporters dredge up so as not to repeat themselves too quickly within a few sentences:
Eg: “A man was **murdered** in an inner suburb last night. The thirty-eight year-old was **killed** when he disturbed intruders. The **slain** man’s name has not been released.”
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/19 "2007-12-23T16:28:25Z")
Count me as a another who believed (until a couple of posts ago) that _slain_ implied intentional violence. Once could be _slain_ by a murderer or a bear or maybe an incompetent hunter, but not by a drunk driver or a virus or a heart attack. And there’s no way one could _slay_ oneself, even if by really crappy driving (ref the OP) or even suicidal intent.
And online dictionaries be damned, I think my take is pretty close to US standard usage.
[Rant On]
Now I think you can be _killed_ by a murderer or a bear, or an incompetent hunter, or a drunk driver. And you can certainly _kill_ yourself by crappy driving or a myriad of intentional acts. But you _die_ from or of a virus or a heart attack.
Actually, that’s not quite right. It’s OK-not-great to speak of someone being _killed_ by a virus or heart attack, but it’s flat wrong to say someone _died_ from an attempted murder, bear attack, or car accident regardless of cause.
One of my pet peeves is news articles which refer to someone _dying_ in a violent way. No, NO, NO!! They were killed. _Dying_ is when your body gives out more or less on its own. Being _killed_ is when an otherwise functioning body is interfered with to the point of catastrophic malfunction. Nobody _dies_ in plane crash; they all were _killed_.
But somehow _died_ sounds less harsh & mealy-mouthed writers trying to soften the story often refer to innocents _dying_, while anyone at fault can be _killed_ wth impunity.
[/Rant Off]
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [December 23, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-slain-usually-imply-murder/430979/20 "2007-12-23T17:09:21Z")
FWIW you can count me as another who thinks the word was used inappropriately: I too would have drawn the wrong conclusion from that headline.
“Slain” to me implies that there was somebody doing the slaying.
(“And hast thou slain the jabberwock?”)
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