# Doesn't this "magical worlds" game maker have any creative shame whatsoever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501 "2006-10-06T14:38:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/1 "2006-10-06T14:38:46Z")
Could you rip off Tolkien any \*more \* closely, and not call it “Lord of the Rings”? [The world of Farland](http://www.farlandworld.com/elves.html#anchor_12981) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/2 "2006-10-06T16:35:36Z")
Seems to be all the rage. _Eragon_ is my peeve in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/3 "2006-10-06T16:49:20Z")
It’s an RPG. Almost every single RPG out there travel in Tolkien’s wake. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/4 "2006-10-06T17:51:05Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] It’s an RPG. Almost every single RPG out there travel in Tolkien’s wake. [/QUOTE] Blame Gary Gygax. Once D&D took off, it became pretty much required to rip off Tolkien. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/5 "2006-10-06T18:01:29Z")
Oh, come on. Ever since Tolkien became popular in the 1960s people have been shamelessly and transparently ripping him off. There have been in-all-but-name posters and games obviously and very closely inspired by the Trilogy. One Christmas back in the 1970s or 1980s I got a game called “Quest of he Magic Ring”, for instance. This is nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/6 "2006-10-06T18:12:47Z")
So would Dungeons & Dragons be a rip-off of Tolkien? Is there any pre-Tolkien literature that has fantasy worlds of dragons, wizards, elves, trolls, and dwarves? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/7 "2006-10-06T18:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there any pre-Tolkien literature that has fantasy worlds of dragons, wizards, elves, trolls, and dwarves? Certainly – Tolkien himsdelf was heavily influenced by a book called “The Magical Land of Snergs”. Then there are the fantasy works of E.R.R. Eddison, William Morris, and a great many others. Tolkien’s “Hobbit” first came out in 1937, his Lord of the Rings trilogy in the 1950s, and really hit it big in the 1960s. If you allow popular fantasy before the 1950s, and especially before the 1960s, there’s plenty of stuff from the Pulps – L. Sprague de Camp and Fletcher Pratt’as “Harold O’Shea/Complete Enchanter” series, Lester Del Rey’s “Day of the Giants” and others, The whole damned Conan saga and Fritz Leiber’s Fafherd and the Grey Mouser series, and so on. But Tolkien undoubtedly was the T. Rex of “Epic Fantasy”. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/8 "2006-10-06T19:02:26Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] So would Dungeons & Dragons be a rip-off of Tolkien? Is there any pre-Tolkien literature that has fantasy worlds of dragons, wizards, elves, trolls, and dwarves? [/QUOTE] All three of those concepts have their origins in Norse mythology, which very heavily influenced Tolkien’s work. I did see an anthology of pre-Tolkien fantasy at one point, but I can’t find any details online at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/9 "2006-10-06T21:58:30Z")
Dennis McKiernan. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/10 "2006-10-06T23:03:18Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] So would Dungeons & Dragons be a rip-off of Tolkien? Is there any pre-Tolkien literature that has fantasy worlds of dragons, wizards, elves, trolls, and dwarves? [/QUOTE] You never heard of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves? Merlin? The Three Billy Goats Gruff? St George? King Arthur? Beowulf? Sigfried? The Shoemaker and the Elves? Santa Claus’s helpers? A Midsummer Night’s Dream? “The Hobbit” even has talking animals, in the mode of The Big Bad Wolf and other fairy tales. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/11 "2006-10-07T01:00:14Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] All three of those concepts have their origins in Norse mythology, which very heavily influenced Tolkien’s work. I did see an anthology of pre-Tolkien fantasy at one point, but I can’t find any details online at the moment. [/QUOTE] Nitpick - how did you get three from that list? 😉 I count five fantasy character types or species. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/12 "2006-10-07T02:14:37Z")
[QUOTE=chrisk] Nitpick - how did you get three from that list? 😉 [/QUOTE] By ignoring the first two. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Il\_Palazzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Lord\_Il\_Palazzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Il_Palazzo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doesnt-this-magical-worlds-game-maker-have-any-creative-shame-whatsoever/375501/13 "2006-10-07T02:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=astro] Could you rip off Tolkien any \*more \* closely, and not call it “Lord of the Rings”? [The world of Farland](http://www.farlandworld.com/elves.html#anchor_12981) [/QUOTE] I cannot help but be reminded of [this webcomic.](http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/794.html)