# Dog Training with Duct Tape. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 10, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034 "2004-11-10T17:05:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/1 "2004-11-10T17:05:20Z")
So I was talking to a coworker today about our respective dogs (and the times when they get naughty), and she said that she read a dog training book that gave this advice for a dog who chews the wrong things: Find a piece (large enough so that the dog won’t choke on it) of the wrongly-chewed item, wedge it into the dog’s mouth, _duct tape the dog’s mouth shut around it_, and leave him like that for 20 minutes! Whaaaaaaaaaat? I thought to myself, but she says it works . . . Anyone EVER tried this, and is it as cruel as it sounds to me? (FTR, I’m a proponent of (proper!) kenneling, which other people find cruel, so I’m not throwing stones–honestly, I’m just curious, else this would be in The Pit.) ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/2 "2004-11-10T17:08:38Z")
I’ll eat my shirt if someone can provide a legitimate cite for this training “method.” Perhaps she could tell you the name of this book? I’ll bet money she doesn’t have it or can’t remember. (Not that she’s making it up; perhaps she’s confusing a book with some nonsense someone told her.) ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/3 "2004-11-10T17:19:43Z")
For FUCKS SAKE you could kill your dog by doing that! When a dog’s mouth is shut they have to breathe through their nose and their nasal passages are on top of their snout. If you put too much pressure on this area, you can block those passages and suffocate your dog. You should NEVER EVER do this. A reasonable alternative (one that I have actually seen put into practice) is to attach the item to the dog’s collar and make them wear it around, every now and then bring attention to it and scold them for it. The humiliation factor goes a long way when it comes to dog training. Sweet jeebus, what are some people thinking? ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/4 "2004-11-10T17:40:27Z")
I’ve done the “tie the thing to the dog’s collar and scold them” trick. My dog once chewed up all my sister’s shoes. She didn’t touch mine, she didn’t chew just one pair - she went through and chewed one shoe out of each pair. I tied a boot to her collar and made her drag it around, and told her what a bad dog she was. She never touched another shoe. I’d never use duct tape, though. Never, ever. StG ---
**Author:** ![Tiggrkitty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tiggrkitty/32/17966_2.png) [@Tiggrkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiggrkitty)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/5 "2004-11-10T17:47:12Z")
> [@Ghanima](#): > > For FUCKS SAKE you could kill your dog by doing that! When a dog’s mouth is shut they have to breathe through their nose and their nasal passages are on top of their snout. If you put too much pressure on this area, you can block those passages and suffocate your dog. You should NEVER EVER do this. Not only this, but a dog cools off by panting. Tape his/her mouth shut, they can’t pant to cool off and the dog will die of heat stroke. I kid you not some idiot in Dallas, Texas did this and is facing jail time for killing a dog. The man was “training the dog not to bark” and taped the dog’s mouth shut in the heat of summer. [Cite](http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/26220/newsDate/26-Jul-2004/story.htm) If you love your dog…DO NOT DO THIS, regardless of what a damn book says. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/6 "2004-11-10T17:47:21Z")
I’m happy to ask her the name of the book (because I do believe she read it somewhere, and didn’t just make it up, although it sounds to me like something someone would do just out of pure anger at the dog)–she said it was a K-9 (as in Cop Dog) training book, but that’s all I know. And I for one find it believable that someone could get something like that published, although the liability if someone followed the advice and killed their dog that way . . . ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/7 "2004-11-10T17:48:15Z")
I’m lucky because the only non dog thing that my dog chews is hangers - like clothes hangers I mean. He’s not picky - puffy hangers, plastic hangers, clippy pant hangers, wire hangers - he loves them all. I just throw the chewed ones out and get more. Amazingly he never chews shoes, furniture or the bunny, so as far as I’m concerned, he can have as many hangers as he likes. I also don’t think I would put one in his mouth and duck-tape it shut. That seems really mean, particularly 'cus he’s really fluffy, and getting the tap off would be a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/8 "2004-11-10T17:49:40Z")
Oh, and I will warn her about the dangers cited here of this method! ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/9 "2004-11-10T18:05:07Z")
You should never close a dog’s mouth with anything you can’t remove in a matter of seconds. Never, ever, ever. If the dog starts gagging or puking with a muzzle on, you’ve got to get it off him _right then_, before he aspirates. That’s why non-basket muzzles have those quick-snap closures, so you can whip 'em right off. By the time you work your way through duct tape, your dog will not only have aspirated (in which case your absolute best-case scenario is a bout of pneumonia), he’ll probably have choked to death on his own puke. That’s also why you should never leave a dog muzzled when you aren’t right beside him and watching him closely. Unless you’re using a basket muzzle, those are all right for extended periods. ---
**Author:** ![AsecretK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ab992/32.png) [@AsecretK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AsecretK)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/10 "2004-11-10T18:27:19Z")
That is just terrible. I have 2 dogs and would never ever think of using that method. I just scolded my dogs when they chewed something. Thank goodness they are older now and no longer eat household items. I never heard of the tying things to the collar method either but at least that is humane. This is defiantly [Pet Abuse](http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/785/WY/US/1) :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/11 "2004-11-10T18:39:42Z")
I didn’t want to believe that such advice could be found in a book – I guess the laugh is on me. Amazon sells _[The Koehler Method of Dog Training](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0783818718/104-0336739-1466315?%5Fencoding=UTF8)_. Note the excerpt from the review by **zpgmom** (Becky Schultz)Some of the Koehler “corrections” include punishing digging by filling the hole with water and holding the dog’s head under “until he thinks he’s going to die”, and repeating this daily for a week. He punishes chewing by duct-taping the chewed object into the dog’s mouth for hours (very dangerous!). He recommends threading a dowel through a rubber hose and hitting the dog with it for up to 20 minutes (again “until he thinks he’s going to die”), and hanging a dog off his feet until he cannot breathe and to the point of vomiting for mouthing the leash. Hitting, choking, drowning, and other technques using fear and force are unnecessary and cruel.She says she’s a professional dog trainer and would never recommend the book. Other reviewers like the book, as strange as that seems. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/12 "2004-11-10T19:17:37Z")
Good grief. If I saw anyone doing any of those things, I’d be on the phone to Animal Control in a nanosecond. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/13 "2004-11-10T19:35:02Z")
PS As far as I’m concerned, **missbunny** doesn’t have to eat her shirt. I wish I hadn’t found a cite. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/14 "2004-11-10T19:48:04Z")
Well maybe I’ll wait until I’m wearing one a little more tasty. Merino wool right now; probably tastes like sheep. Anyway, I said a legitimate source. I’m not so sure this fits. Hitler got published too; it doesn’t make his theories valid. I am horrified at how many Amazon reviews rave at this book. I can only hope that 99% of it is a regular dog-training book and 1% is the torture methods for the canine-owning sadist. People would actually drown their dog near to death just to get it to stop digging a hole? Wire a chicken with live electricity so the dog gets shocked when trying to bite it? Hang a dog upside down by its legs? Tape it’s mouth shut and watch while he frantically claws at his face trying to get the tape off? The mind boggles. And the stomach heaves. Is the author dead yet? I can only hope. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/15 "2004-11-10T22:35:19Z")
This makes me sick to my stomach. Torture is not an option. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/16 "2004-11-10T22:58:20Z")
:eek: I can’t think of any modern day trainer who would suggest such a method at all. If you find one, run. Run far, and run fast. ---
**Author:** ![Tiggrkitty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tiggrkitty/32/17966_2.png) [@Tiggrkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiggrkitty)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/17 "2004-11-10T23:12:12Z")
> [@Papermache Prince](#): > > IAmazon sells _[The Koehler Method of Dog Training](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0783818718/104-0336739-1466315?%5Fencoding=UTF8)_. Note the excerpt from the review by **zpgmom** (Becky Schultz)Some of the Koehler “corrections” include punishing digging by filling the hole with water and holding the dog’s head under “until he thinks he’s going to die”, and repeating this daily for a week. He punishes chewing by duct-taping the chewed object into the dog’s mouth for hours (very dangerous!). He recommends threading a dowel through a rubber hose and hitting the dog with it for up to 20 minutes (again “until he thinks he’s going to die”), and hanging a dog off his feet until he cannot breathe and to the point of vomiting for mouthing the leash. Hitting, choking, drowning, and other technques using fear and force are unnecessary and cruel.She says she’s a professional dog trainer and would never recommend the book. Other reviewers like the book, as strange as that seems. You know, this person should be brought up on animal abuse just for suggesting these methods of “training”. Beating a dog? Trying to drown a dog? It is an animal for crying out loud. It doesn’t have the same concept of right/wrong we do. Beating it into submission or trying to kill the poor animal isn’t going to train it, it will break the dog’s spirit and make it afraid of you. The end results are those dogs that turn on their owners, and then the dog is put to sleep for defending itself. I swear if I EVER saw someone doing this to an animal, I would call the police and the SPCA and report the moron. You can be brought up on animal abuse charges for such crimes as listed above and face fines and prison time. I do not belong to PETA but this type of abuse for a domestic animal just really ticks me off to no means. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/18 "2004-11-10T23:12:37Z")
> [@Papermache Prince](#): > > Some of the Koehler “corrections” include punishing digging by filling the hole with water and holding the dog’s head under “until he thinks he’s going to die”, and repeating this daily for a week. He punishes chewing by duct-taping the chewed object into the dog’s mouth for hours (very dangerous!). He recommends threading a dowel through a rubber hose and hitting the dog with it for up to 20 minutes (again “until he thinks he’s going to die”), and hanging a dog off his feet until he cannot breathe and to the point of vomiting for mouthing the leash. I think I’m going to have nightmares from reading this… :eek: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/19 "2004-11-10T23:20:22Z")
> [@Tiggrkitty](#): > > You know, this person should be brought up on animal abuse just for suggesting these methods of “training”. Beating a dog? Trying to drown a dog? It is an animal for crying out loud. I agree, Tiggrkitty - but truth is, there are still plenty of people out there who train using Koehler and swear by it. It gives me the CREEPS. Yeah, they get dogs who are super obedient… because they are scared to death of doing something wrong. I’m a strong believer in operant conditionning - that said, there are some things from the old J&P training methods that _do_ work with really hard dogs (I’m thinking here of working-bred police k9 types)… but honestly, anyone who applies these “drowning, beating and hanging” methods needs to be brought up on cruelty charges. I am surprised that this book is still in circulation… and saddened to read on [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) that there are still people using it. Again - all things are good, in moderation. Some of the basic obedience ideas Koehler had were not bad. But his idea of correction sucks unwashed llama ass. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034/20 "2004-11-10T23:55:12Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > Again - all things are good, in moderation. Speaking of good things in moderation… Is there a good way to get my doggie to quit piddling everywhere? Short of duct-taping, drowning, or hanging him?) He used to be totally pan trained, but for the last while he’s been piddling places he’s not supposed to. I tried putting paper plates of food where he was piddling, and that worked, except he just changed spots. Thoughts? (Tying up his willy with yarn for 20 minutes or somesuch need not apply.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-training-with-duct-tape/274034.md?page=2)