# Dog vs. fox - what now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934 "2009-09-21T12:37:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/41 "2009-09-22T21:09:22Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > A little hint: Deer hunters sometimes use fox urine to mask their own human scent. They scatter a little near them, and the powerful rank smell covers up the faint smells of man, Right Guard, and Old Spice. Some rookie hunters have applied the stuff to themselves, to their everlasting regret. :eek: Oh, I know, but that’s the best aprt - domesticated silver foxes lost most of the “nasty pee smell”, and they’re friendly and sociable like dogs. They’re not pack-oriented, but foxes do have social lives and enjoy play. The onyl downside si that they apparently share the odd genes that make some dogs have floppy ears and most dogs wag their tails, so they are a bit too similar. Still. ---
**Author:** ![Fact\_of\_the\_Matter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Fact\_of\_the\_Matter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fact_of_the_Matter)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/42 "2009-09-22T21:28:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What am I missing? I said just that: it’s either euthanized or quarantined for six months: What you are missing is: > [@](#): > > A dog or cat exposed to rabies shall be destroyed immediately by its owner, the county Animal Control Officer or a peace officer unless the dog or cat has been vaccinated against rabies in accordance with this Part and the rules of the Commission more than three weeks prior to being exposed, and is given a booster dose of rabies vaccine within three days of the exposure. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/43 "2009-09-22T21:52:16Z")
That is odd that your dog managed to kill the fox - I have dogs and live in an area where there’s a lot of foxes cruising around, and there’s no way I could imagine those critters ever being caught by any type of dog. They’re lightning, they’ll go through small gaps too small for dogs to get through at full pace and they’re quick to bolt. That’s why fox hunts use whole packs of trained dogs, and even then the fox usually manages to get away or go to ground long before the dogs can get to it. Maybe this fox your dog has killed was sick, injured or defending its cubs. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/44 "2009-09-22T22:00:30Z")
Yeah, 6 months seems rather excessive for a vaccinated pet. I think our state does 45 days at-home quarantine (with re-vax and vet followup) for vaccinated pets. Non-vaccinated (or expired vaccinations) pets get vax plus a 6 month vet quarantine and followup, or euthanasia. Vaccinate your pets, folks. The reason for the long quarantine is that the incubation period for rabies in dogs & cats can be up to 6 months. Typical incubation is listed at 3-8 weeks. I believe the ten-day quarantines are usually for when a pet bites a human. It’s really, really rare for those domestic-animal bite cases to actually be rabies. (That’s for healthy pets - if your dog is showing symptoms, there’s a very good chance it will be put down and tested. AFAIK, all the quarantines are at the discretion of the state.) IIRC, the quarantine is shorter because the infectious period usually starts a fairly short time before symptoms show. IOW, if a dog bites you because it’s actively rabid, it’s going to show other symptoms soon. OTOH, when the spousal unit worked at the vet, they had a bite case come in for a 10-day quarantine. The animal stayed longer because the owners were out of town or something. I think it was the 14th day that the critter keeled over… BTW, when they say a “no-contact” quarantine, you know the techs do go in and talk to the animal, etc. They feel bad for them, too. Yes, all of these laws are designed to protect HUMANS, not animals. There’s a reason for that. You know the famous rabies shots? As I remember it, they can be as little as 50% effective in cases of actual rabies exposure (depending on a lot of different factors). There are also a lot of bad side-effects possible from those shots. And, of course, there have been a grand total of two people survive actually developing rabies. It’s a nasty, nasty way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/45 "2009-09-22T22:04:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s certainly tragic, and I would have shed tears if I had to put a family pet to sleep under those circumstances. > > But I’d make that choice in a heartbeat, because I have a young son, and his life is infinitely more valuable than a pet’s is. Yeah, it’s a sad situation. But rabies is 100% fatal once symptoms develop. Rabies cannot be detected \*until \*symptoms develop. Since it is almost impossible to deal with, secure and transport a dog without being exposed to it’s saliva, your dog owning friend and familiy’s health must be the first concern. The main resevoiur of rabies in the eastern US is racoons, which have regular interaction with foxes. Bricker, I see you are in Northern Virginia, The first link is a rabies distribution map for the US. Hope the dog ends up fine, but rabies is nasty. [http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/rabies/maps/USVariants.jpg](http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/rabies/maps/USVariants.jpg) [http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/epidemiology.html](http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/epidemiology.html) ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/46 "2009-09-22T22:08:16Z")
Oops, I misread Bricker’s post. A quarantine for a KNOWN rabies exposure can be different from the quarantine for a “maybe”. The quarantine period can also depend on a lot of other things like how bad the pet’s injuries are, how long before it got to the vet, etc. Evidently just washing a surface wound for 10 minutes with soap and running water immediately after the bite drastically reduces the odds of developing rabies, because it washes the bad little whosamajigs out. ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/47 "2009-09-22T22:08:59Z")
Kill the dog and any other fox you see. And while you’re at it kill anything else that comes into range. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/48 "2009-09-22T23:49:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What’s the best practice-type thing for him to do next? I’d suggest more practice on foxes. Just because he’s killed one doesn’t mean he’s perfected his technique. Let him learn from a few more encounters, build up his skills, and soon enough, he’ll be ready for larger animals. Like bears. I know I have to spend a lot of time with weaker enemies before I level up. I imagine it’s the same for a dog. Or at least roughly similar. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/49 "2009-09-23T01:53:07Z")
> [@Fact\_of\_the\_Matter](#): > > What you are missing is: Yes, and the very next sentence is: > [@](#): > > As an alternative to destruction, the dog or cat may be quarantined at a facility approved by the local health director for a period up to six months, and under reasonable conditions imposed by the local health director. “As an alternative” = “Or” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/50 "2009-09-23T02:22:29Z")
> [@](#): > > As an alternative to destruction, the dog or cat may be quarantined at a facility approved by the local health director for a period **up to six months** , and under reasonable conditions imposed by the local health director. I wonder if this is an older law covering more than just rabies and if the “up to” actually indicates it would be a much shorter period in the case of rabies. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/51 "2009-09-23T03:55:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and the very next sentence is: > > “As an alternative” = “Or” > [@](#): > > A dog or cat exposed to rabies shall be destroyed immediately by its owner, the county Animal Control Officer or a peace officer unless the dog or cat has been vaccinated against rabies in accordance with this Part and the rules of the Commission more than three weeks prior to being exposed, and is given a booster dose of rabies vaccine within three days of the exposure. > > As an alternative to destruction, the dog or cat may be quarantined at a facility approved by the local health director for a period up to six months, and under reasonable conditions imposed by the local health director. Well, I read that as “Shall be destroyed…_unless vaccinated_. As an alternative to _being destroyed because unvaccinated,_ may be quarantined for up to six months.” Which implies to me “if vaccinated, destroyed/quarantined does not apply.” Is that wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/52 "2009-09-23T13:49:58Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Oh, I know, but that’s the best aprt - domesticated silver foxes lost most of the “nasty pee smell”, and they’re friendly and sociable like dogs. I know nothing aout domesticated silver foxes, but have read a bit about dogs. I assume you’ve read of that Russian study where they bred foxes for temperament and very quickly ended up with something much like a dog? Fascinating stuff! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/53 "2009-09-23T14:14:07Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I know nothing aout domesticated silver foxes, but have read a bit about dogs. I assume you’ve read of that Russian study where they bred foxes for temperament and very quickly ended up with something much like a dog? Fascinating stuff! [And they’re so CUTE!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/54 "2009-09-23T14:43:31Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > [And they’re so CUTE!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox) Appreciate the opportunity to flaunt my ignorance. Apparently the domesticated silver fox IS the result of the study I referenced. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/55 "2009-09-23T14:57:51Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, I read that as “Shall be destroyed…_unless vaccinated_. As an alternative to _being destroyed because unvaccinated,_ may be quarantined for up to six months.” > > Which implies to me “if vaccinated, destroyed/quarantined does not apply.” > > Is that wrong? That’s how I read that statute. Virginia [law](http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+3.2-6522) provides that a bitten animal who is on record as having been vaccinated “shall be revaccinated immediately following the bite and shall be confined to the premises of the owner, or other site as may be approved by the local health department, for a period of 45 days.” Imagine being that owner and coming home each night, wondering precisely how Rover was going to greet you. An unvaccinated animal must be confined for six months or put down. **Bricker** , for future reference, perhaps your friend and his dog could watch [The Fox And The Hound](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Hound) together. This could be a teachable moment. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/56 "2009-09-23T16:58:34Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, I read that as “Shall be destroyed…_unless vaccinated_. As an alternative to _being destroyed because unvaccinated,_ may be quarantined for up to six months.” > > Which implies to me “if vaccinated, destroyed/quarantined does not apply.” > > Is that wrong? That’s how I read it. I just called my vet and was told that if the shots are current, and depending upon a physical examination, a booster shot and a quarantine of ten days was required. That quarantine may be at the owner’s home. ---
**Author:** ![Fact\_of\_the\_Matter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Fact\_of\_the\_Matter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fact_of_the_Matter)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/57 "2009-09-23T23:40:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and the very next sentence is: > > “As an alternative” = “Or” I’m sure it is possible my reading comprehension isn’t what it used to be, but I read the options based on those two sentences as euthanized or quarantined if not vaccinated. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/58 "2009-09-24T12:13:21Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > That’s how I read it. I just called my vet and was told that if the shots are current, and depending upon a physical examination, a booster shot and a quarantine of ten days was required. That quarantine may be at the owner’s home. > [@Fact\_of\_the\_Matter](#): > > I’m sure it is possible my reading comprehension isn’t what it used to be, but I read the options based on those two sentences as euthanized or quarantined if not vaccinated. OK, looks like my reading was the one off. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/59 "2009-09-24T12:39:37Z")
Sorry to hijack, but this thread has me a bit confused. Some of you are talking about foxes, some about silver foxes. Are the ordinary foxes you get over in the US the same as [what we get here](http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/staticfiles/NGS/Shared/StaticFiles/animals/images/primary/red-fox-sleeping.jpg)? I’m amazed that some people say they’ve never seen them in the wild. It’s a rare day that I don’t see at least one, usually two or three, on my five-mile commute home in the evening. Sometimes they just wander across the road in broad daylight, but they’re more commonly seen after dark. (Never mind dogs: I remember once seeing my parents’ cat chasing a fox out of their garden. It was only a young fox, but still - go cat! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934/60 "2009-09-24T12:55:08Z")
Silver foxes are a “morph” of the red fox. The fur is black with white guard hairs, which gives it a silvery sheen. Where is “here”? If that’s Britain, you have to remember that we’re a LOT more spread out over a LOT more land area than you are. It would be absolutely no problem for an animal, staying within its home territory, to never have to cross any kind of major highway. There’s so much space outside of cities/suburbs that it’s really easy for a small animal to hide very effectively. Hell, even large animals. I’m guessing that most US Dopers have never seen a bear in person outside a zoo, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-vs-fox-what-now/510934.md?page=4)