# Dog Whistles are stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070 "2017-08-08T08:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/21 "2017-08-08T15:54:49Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Show. Don’t tell. > > Used by whom? Prove it. I mean what other word would you use to mean “likes ethnic and cultural difference?” “Xenophilia” would work but that’s even less commonly used than ‘cosmopolitan’. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/22 "2017-08-08T15:56:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Better to focus on the strength or weakness of the actual argument the person is making, rather than focusing on which words they choose to make the argument with. Oh, there was plenty wrong with Acosta’s comment that the only english speaking immigrants to come to the US would be from Australia and the UK. So Miller was right to criticize him for that comment. But to accuse Acosta of being “cosmopolitan” in the same breath completely undermined Miller’s position. Words have meaning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/23 "2017-08-08T16:03:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Oh, there was plenty wrong with Acosta’s comment that the only english speaking immigrants to come to the US would be from Australia and the UK. Yep. Most of them would be from Canada. 😃 > [@](#): > > So Miller was right to criticize him for that comment. > > But to accuse Acosta of being “cosmopolitan” in the same breath completely undermined Miller’s position. Words have meaning. Why would the choice of one word undermine his entire position? As noted, the word doesn’t make sense int hat context. So, the proper thing to do is to challenge the use of the word, if you are so inclined. _But Mr. Miller, why would “cosmopolitan” people be so unaware of the widespread use of English in places like India and the Philippines, for example? “Cosmopolitan” people are “wise to the ways of the world” and are exactly the type of people who would know that, no?_ ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/24 "2017-08-08T16:07:57Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I mean what other word would you use to mean “likes ethnic and cultural difference?” “Xenophilia” would work but that’s even less commonly used than ‘cosmopolitan’. My objection wasn’t to the definition of, “Cosmopolitan.” It was to, “Commonly used to deride.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/25 "2017-08-08T16:10:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The other thing with this specific instance is that taken literally, it makes no sense whatsoever. If it didn’t mean what it purported to mean, then what did it mean? A coded message is the only possibility that makes sense. Are you kidding? The word cosmopolitan means a person who is free from local, provincial, or national bias or attachment; someone who is a “citizen of the world.” “Cosmopolitan bias,” means a viewpoint that tracks with such a position. In a debate over whether to use the last available bit of school funding to run an auto shop class or an Asian studies class, the person with “cosmopolitan bias,” would likely favor the Asian studies. In a discussion concerning the relative merits of an afternoon of laser tag and an afternoon at the Guggenheim Museum, the person with “cosmopolitan bias,” would likely advocate for the museum. In a discussion about broadening immigration policies or narrowing them, the participant with “cosmopolitan bias,” would likely support broadening them. It’s very difficult for me to understand how this information could possibly be so mysterious to you, so impenetrable, so beyond your ken that your best analysis was that if it’s not a coded anti-Semitic message, “it makes no sense whatsoever.” You might well argue that the coded message is more likely, for example. But I cannot understand how you can believe that any other interpretation is not simply less likely, but “makes no sense whatsoever.” But since you did believe that, I hope my explanation above has helped you move move the realm of impossibility. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/26 "2017-08-08T16:12:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I assumed we were discussing U.S.A. where antisemitic, racist bigots are far more than a “handful”, **probably a majority of voters in some states,** especially states which impose excessive hurdles on minority voters. This being Great Debates, you have a cite for that, right? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/27 "2017-08-08T16:17:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yep. Most of them would be from Canada. 😃 Build that wall! > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why would the choice of one word undermine his entire position? As noted, the word doesn’t make sense int hat context. So, the proper thing to do is to challenge the use of the word, if you are so inclined. > > _But Mr. Miller, why would “cosmopolitan” people be so unaware of the widespread use of English in places like India and the Philippines, for example? “Cosmopolitan” people are “wise to the ways of the world” and are exactly the type of people who would know that, no?_ The conversation devolved into _folie à deux_. Acosta made a factual error and Miller compounded it with an alt-right talking point. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/28 "2017-08-08T16:39:32Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > My objection wasn’t to the definition of, “Cosmopolitan.” It was to, “Commonly used to deride.” Commonly used among people who dislike ethnic/cultural/political difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/29 "2017-08-08T16:40:55Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Commonly used among people who dislike ethnic/cultural/political difference. Great. Show. Don’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/30 "2017-08-08T16:44:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In a discussion about broadening immigration policies or narrowing them, the participant with “cosmopolitan bias,” would likely support broadening them. In a discussion of whether English was spoken by people only in the UK and Australia or by people all over the world, which way would the person with cosmopolitan bias lean? > [@](#): > > MR. MILLER: Jim, it’s actually – I have to honestly say I am shocked at your statement that you think that only people from Great Britain and Australia would know English. It’s actually – it reveals your cosmopolitan bias to a shocking degree that in your mind – > > MR. ACOSTA: Sir, it’s not a cosmopolitan – > > MR. MILLER: No, this is an amazing moment. This an amazing moment. That you think only people from Great Britain or Australia would speak English is so insulting to millions of hardworking immigrants who do speak English from all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/31 "2017-08-08T16:46:48Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Great. Show. Don’t tell. “[Cosmopolitan](https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-08-03/cosmopolitan-dog-whistle-word-once-used-nazi-germany-and-communist-russia)”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/32 "2017-08-08T16:48:11Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > In a discussion of whether English was spoken by people only in the UK and Australia or by people all over the world, which way would the person with cosmopolitan bias lean? Acosta was factually wrong. That doesn’t make Miller right in his rhetorical accusation of Acosta. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/33 "2017-08-08T16:50:33Z")
Here’s the second accusation of cosmopolitan bias. > [@](#): > > MR. MILLER: Jim, have you honestly never met an immigrant from another country who speaks English outside of Great Britain and Australia? Is that your personal experience? > > MR. ACOSTA: Of course, there are people who come into this country from other parts of the world. > > MR. MILLER: But that’s not what you said, and it shows your cosmopolitan bias. Does that sound to you like a natural and correct usage of cosmopolitan or does that sound like someone trying to shoehorn a particular word into a conversation where it doesn’t really belong? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/34 "2017-08-08T16:56:45Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Here’s the second accusation of cosmopolitan bias. > > Does that sound to you like a natural and correct usage of cosmopolitan or does that sound like someone trying to shoehorn a particular word into a conversation where it doesn’t really belong? It shows that Miller is choosing to label Acosta rather than form a cogent argument. Labels are sticky. Cogent arguments are hard to make and often make whooshing noises over the heads of intended audiences. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/35 "2017-08-08T16:58:49Z")
The point of labeling speech a dog whistle is precisely to have the ability to demonize one’s opposition without having any proof or evidence. How in the hell does dog whistling even attempt to work? A secret package containing code words that no one leaks is disseminated to a group? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/36 "2017-08-08T17:01:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The point of labeling speech a dog whistle is precisely to have the ability to demonize one’s opposition without having any proof or evidence. How in the hell does dog whistling even attempt to work? A secret package containing code words that no one leaks is disseminated to a group? Allow me to make the counter argument, thus: The point of [del]labeling speech[/del] a dog whistle is precisely to have the ability to demonize one’s opposition without having any proof or evidence. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/37 "2017-08-08T17:09:38Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > We still run into the problem that they’re using “code words” which only the following people will get: > > - A tiny, extremely unpopular political minority whose support is in and of itself a political negative > - The entire news media and every member of the opposition > - People on the fence about the candidate > > That seems like a phenomenally stupid move. Even if all you’re doing is alienating people on the fence and firing up your opposition, is that worth it to court a handful of antisemitic, racist bigots that _nobody_ wants to be associated with? Even if you can assume that the base will always take that plausible deniability and run with it (which is not a given), in what universe is this politically savvy? It doesn’t actually make sense. It does not alienate the people on the fence. It does alienated those who are opposed to racism, but that doesn’t move any votes. It encourages those who recognize and appreciate them, as they pretend that they don’t know what they mean. If anything, it ends up making the people on the fense side wit the people who act oblivious about the message that they receive, as they sometimes end up looking the reasonable one in their denials. It’s nudging the base and trolling the opposition, and I think the trolling of the opposition is the greater motivation. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/38 "2017-08-08T17:10:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Allow me to make the counter argument, thus: > > The point of [del]labeling speech[/del] a dog whistle is precisely to have the ability to demonize one’s opposition without having any proof or evidence. And how does a dog whistle accomplish that when an ordinary whistle would not? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/39 "2017-08-08T17:24:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And how does a dog whistle accomplish that when an ordinary whistle would not? Cowards use cowardly actions for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/40 "2017-08-08T17:29:05Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > In a discussion of whether English was spoken by people only in the UK and Australia or by people all over the world, which way would the person with cosmopolitan bias lean? The person with cosmopolitan bias would lean towards the argument that people all over the world may be found who speak English. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070.md?page=3)