# Dog Whistles are stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070 "2017-08-08T08:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![str8cashhomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@str8cashhomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/str8cashhomie)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/81 "2017-08-09T14:27:31Z")
Have Democrats ever used dogwhistles? Yes: > **[Obama’s ‘not one of us’ attack on Romney echoes racial code](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/obama-mitt-romney-not-one-of-us/2012/10/22/e78714ba-1bb3-11e2-9cd5-b55c38388962_story.html?utm_term=.11eb8d2bf1a8)** > > Critics accuse president of trying to divide the country. Also I think people are missing a pretty important aspect of dogwhistles: not everyone neatly divides into a member of a fringe group or the unaware public. While there are overt racists in the US, there are also people who think that everything is very mysterious and maybe the fringe group is right about some things. That group may actually be the main target for dogwhistle politics because they are the exact group that might be swayed by a cleverly masked appeal to a fringe belief, but may also take offense at having the mask uncovered. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/82 "2017-08-09T14:31:41Z")
I notice several confused comments, for example: > [@Bricker](#): > > Wow. > > How about, “I think we should bankrupt out nation in order to reduce carbon.” > > “I think women should be entitled to preferential treatment to make up for society’s sexism.” > > Why aren’t those the examples of “honest talk” from the left? > > They are, after all, constructed in the same way you seem to have constructed your example sentences from the right. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Why are Democrats the only people who hear these dog whistles? Democrats certainly seem better at spotting dog whistles than the normal/average person. > > Could it be that they are more paranoid than other groups? Maybe they’re just more suspicious of/than other groups? > > Imagine that. A secret code that only the opposition can hear. I’ve only skimmed the thread, so please just tell me: Do the Trumpists and their fellow travelers claim that “Dog whistles don’t exist” or that “Liberals do it too” ? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/83 "2017-08-09T15:31:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I notice several confused comments, for example: > > I’ve only skimmed the thread, so please just tell me: Do the Trumpists and their fellow travelers claim that “Dog whistles don’t exist” or that “Liberals do it too” ? I’ve only just skimmed the thread too, so if you could just tell me: did Wałęsa actually collaborate with the communist secret police? I ask this because I’m trying to follow your example of asking questions that have nothing to do with the post to which they purportedly reply. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/84 "2017-08-09T16:09:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Because most people on the left don’t have a problem with stating their beliefs out loud. Listen: > > “I think men and women are equal and should be treated equally.” > “I think we should be preserving the environment so future generations can live comfortably.” > “I think people of all races are equal and should be treated equally.” > > Now listen to the opposing viewpoints being said out loud: > > “I think men are better than women and men are entitled to better treatment.” > “I think I should be allowed to ruin the environment as long as I can make money doing it.” > “I think I’m better than other people because of what color skin I have.” > > You can see why people who hold the latter beliefs want to express them with codewords: > > “I think we should acknowledge gender differences.” > “I oppose government over-regulation.” > “I think we need to get tough on inner city problems.” You’re simply casting one side in as charitable language as possible and the other side in as uncharitable language as possible. That’s a rhetorical straw man. By this logic, a pro-lifer could claim, _“The pro-choice side doesn’t want to state out loud, “We support the murder of the unborn,” so they use dog whistle language like, ‘We support a woman’s right to choose.’”_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/85 "2017-08-09T16:52:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ve only just skimmed the thread too, so if you could just tell me: did Wałęsa actually collaborate with the communist secret police? > > I ask this because I’m trying to follow your example of asking questions that have nothing to do with the post to which they purportedly reply. In fairness to that poster, I read your post as “liberals do it, too”. I don’t think it was fair to refer to you as a “Trumpist” or a “fellow traveler”, but it looked like you were trying to understand why certain statements by liberals weren’t also considered dog whistles (statements that you distorted a bit from what liberals actually say, but I assume that was for effect). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/86 "2017-08-09T17:22:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think it was fair to refer to you as a “Trumpist” or a “fellow traveler”, but it looked like you were trying to understand why certain statements by liberals weren’t also considered dog whistles (statements that you distorted a bit from what liberals actually say, but I assume that was for effect). Republican Senators (including the Tie-Breaker) voted 51/53 to confirm Betsy de Vos, the most malicious and incompetent person to ever serve in any cabinet. 51/52 Republican Senators voted to confirm Scott Pruitt as head of EPA — a man who detests the environment and any effort to regulate it. _ **The very name Republican Party will be tarnished from this day forth as the “Party of Trump.”** _ I feel very comfortable calling almost all Republicans “fellow travelers.” Yes, some fellow travelers cast a ballot for Hillary … and enjoy describing how much mental anguish that caused them. The 2016 election causes me much mental anguish also. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/87 "2017-08-09T17:25:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In fairness to that poster, I read your post as “liberals do it, too”. I don’t think it was fair to refer to you as a “Trumpist” or a “fellow traveler”, but it looked like you were trying to understand why certain statements by liberals weren’t also considered dog whistles (statements that you distorted a bit from what liberals actually say, but I assume that was for effect). The impression I got wasn’t so much “liberals do it too” as it was that \*\*Bricker \*\*was pointing out that the statement was misrepresenting the conservative case. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/88 "2017-08-09T17:40:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I agree with **Little Nemo**. > > Dog whistles accomplish two things. One, they are wink wink, nod nod to whomever is primed to agree with their implicit message. Two, they make those who are primed to take offense at them look like the bad guy–the whole “Only a racist would think that’s racist” thing. So the offended keep their mouth shut. Meanwhile, the dog whistling gets louder and louder. And then we get a buffoon for a president. > > If dog whistles were stupid, politicians wouldn’t use them so much. I disagree. In fact i dont think they ever use them. I think they are a Urban Legend and a myth. Look, show me a couple examples where the \*planned audience \*got the 'dog whistle" message. All i ever read about is where the opposition, the unplanned audience heard the “dog whistle”. It’s a really crappy “dog whistle” if only cats respond to it and dogs dont. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/89 "2017-08-09T17:43:29Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Or they could be like patterns in clouds. You can convince yourself you can see them if you try hard enough but there is nothing there but amorphous blobs in reality. I tend to agree with the OP. If anyone is trying to “dog whistle” at people like me, I sure as hell don’t hear it and I am a lot smarter than the groups that are supposedly being targeted. The whole concept is a little ridiculous like the subliminal messages in movies myth. The people that are supposedly being whistled to have members that could barely pass high school English. Do you really expect them to closely listen to political speeches and carefully dissect their true meaning? > > If “dog whistles” are so effective, why do people assume they mainly come from the Right? If they are real, there must be equivalent ones being used in the Radical Feminist, environmental and Black Power movements as well but I have never picked up on one. Maybe I am not just deep enough in the club so to speak but I don’t think most other people are either to make a difference. If you want to send a message to a select group of activists, it is easier just to pull them together and tell them directly. Exactly. And somehow, rarely do the “whistlers” ever use this great hidden communication method on the liberal base. But it’s always the liberal base that hears it, never the intended audience. Or at least the intended audience never admits it. And we have some pretty reactionary right wingers here, you’d think they would tell us. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/90 "2017-08-09T17:49:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I have little doubt that this can sometimes be true. However, when political consultants come right out and say that they use dog whistles in their campaigns, such as the famous quote from Lee Atwater quote about “state’s rights” and “forced busing” having a subconscious appeal, then how is it that you know better than those people about the language they choose to use? That quote is pretty damn bogus. [http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/06/what-did-lee-atwater-really-say.php](http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/06/what-did-lee-atwater-really-say.php) _So the central point that Atwater made in the interview was the exact opposite of the proposition for which liberals have endlessly quoted him…Liberals like Martin Bashir cite this interview for the proposition that Republicans skillfully conceal appeals to racism in seemingly innocuous policy discussions. Obviously, Atwater said nothing of the sort. And he declined to agree with Professor Lamis’s suggestion that Reagan’s talk about cutting programs like legal services and food stamps “gets to” the racist side of the George Wallace voter, albeit unconsciously. “I’m not saying it.” What Atwater did say, repeatedly and unambiguously, is that racial prejudice no longer plays a significant role in Southern elections, and that Reagan won the South in 1980 on the same issues with which he swept the rest of the country: the economy and national defense. It requires a great deal of dishonesty to twist Atwater’s words into the exact opposite of what he actually said._ I have listened to the entire interview and I agree. The quote is taken totally out of context. Nor do i trust any “journalist” that both quotes when told not to and releases the name of a interviewee that was promised anonymity. And what is interesting is that this interview, taken out of context - is the ONLY example of such “coded messages” anyone can come up with. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/91 "2017-08-09T17:56:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Republican Senators (including the Tie-Breaker) voted 51/53 to confirm Betsy de Vos, the most malicious and incompetent person to ever serve in any cabinet. 51/52 Republican Senators voted to confirm Scott Pruitt as head of EPA — a man who detests the environment and any effort to regulate it. _ **The very name Republican Party will be tarnished from this day forth as the “Party of Trump.”** _ I feel very comfortable calling almost all Republicans “fellow travelers.” > > Yes, some fellow travelers cast a ballot for Hillary … and enjoy describing how much mental anguish that caused them. The 2016 election causes me much mental anguish also. Anyone willing to even consider voting for Trump after watching him ‘debate’ is a fool. Anyone willing to even consider voting for Trump after he promised to torture prisoners and have their families killed is scum who can best improve the world by leaving it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/92 "2017-08-09T17:57:35Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > It’s commonly used to deride people who like or are comfortable with ethnic and cultural difference. I have never heard it used so. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/93 "2017-08-09T17:58:47Z")
The argument that Miller didn’t know what the word “cosmopolitan” means is fucking ridiculous. Miller knows what it means. Yeah, there are people in the Trump administration that might misuse the word. Like, you know, Trump. Miller is not one of those people. He used it on purpose, in a context where it doesn’t make sense, because he wanted to accuse a journalist of being a cosmopolitan. And why did he want to do that? Because he thought cosmopolitan mean provincial? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/94 "2017-08-09T18:01:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not precisely “the opposite.” > > I suspect he was thinking more along the lines of “the intelligentsia,” a term which can be used in a positive or a more pejorative way, even though its literal meaning does not lend itself to both applications. I have indeed heard that word used both ways. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/95 "2017-08-09T18:07:12Z")
> [@str8cashhomie](#): > > Have Democrats ever used dogwhistles? Yes: > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/obama-mitt-romney-not-one-of-us/2012/10/22/e78714ba-1bb3-11e2-9cd5-b55c38388962\_story.html?utm\_term=.11eb8d2bf1a8](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/obama-mitt-romney-not-one-of-us/2012/10/22/e78714ba-1bb3-11e2-9cd5-b55c38388962_story.html?utm_term=.11eb8d2bf1a8) > > . Paywall. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/96 "2017-08-09T18:12:05Z")
As someone pointed out, a “dog whistle” that attracts the attention of cats better than dogs either isn’t a dog whistle at all, or it’s a cat whistle, or it’s a very lousy dog whistle. We had another thread a year ago where someone asked for examples of political dog whistles than only the dogs can hear. As I recall it, not a single poster was able to provide an example of one. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/97 "2017-08-09T18:12:17Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Anyone willing to even consider voting for Trump after watching him ‘debate’ is a fool. Anyone willing to even consider voting for Trump after he promised to torture prisoners and have their families killed is scum who can best improve the world by leaving it. Typically we don’t moderate generalized insults against groups, however this is too far. Demonizing people in this fashion, including posters on this board, and suggesting that they kill themselves is not appropriate for this forum. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![str8cashhomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@str8cashhomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/str8cashhomie)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/98 "2017-08-09T18:13:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Paywall. Open it it incognito mode. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/99 "2017-08-09T18:24:15Z")
Septimus wrote: “I’ve only skimmed the thread, so please just tell me: Do the Trumpists and their fellow travelers claim that “Dog whistles don’t exist” or that “Liberals do it too” ?” They claim both, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/100 "2017-08-09T19:40:35Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You’re simply casting one side in as charitable language as possible and the other side in as uncharitable language as possible. That’s a rhetorical straw man. > > By this logic, a pro-lifer could claim, _“The pro-choice side doesn’t want to state out loud, “We support the murder of the unborn,” so they use dog whistle language like, ‘We support a woman’s right to choose.’”_ Except that logic is absolute nonsense, as I have already pointed out in a previous post. Does anyone really believe that the reason some people are pro-choice is because they want to murder unborn children? Anyone who believes that is literally insane. Pro-choice people aren’t hiding the truth that they want to murder children because that is not the truth. Their real honest belief is that they think abortion is a issue that should be decided by the woman involved. And that’s what they’re saying out loud. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070.md?page=6)