# Dog Whistles are stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070 "2017-08-08T08:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/101 "2017-08-09T19:50:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > As someone pointed out, a “dog whistle” that attracts the attention of cats better than dogs either isn’t a dog whistle at all, or it’s a cat whistle, or it’s a very lousy dog whistle. > > We had another thread a year ago where someone asked for examples of political dog whistles than only the dogs can hear. As I recall it, not a single poster was able to provide an example of one. No. Because as I have said, the point of dog whistles is deniability. And you can’t have deniability without people denying something. One group of people hear the code word, know what it means, and oppose the idea. They denounce the use of the code word and the idea it supports. Another group of people hear the code word and know what it means. But they support the idea. So they pretend that there was no code word and deny that there was a hidden meaning in the message. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/102 "2017-08-09T19:54:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Except that logic is absolute nonsense, as I have already pointed out in a previous post. Does anyone really believe that the reason some people are pro-choice is because they want to murder unborn children? Anyone who believes that is literally insane. > > Pro-choice people aren’t hiding the truth that they want to murder children because that is not the truth. Their real honest belief is that they think abortion is a issue that should be decided by the woman involved. And that’s what they’re saying out loud. And conversely, the viewpoints you described are not accurate - the real honest belief of many of the people you describe is \*\*\*not \*\*\*that men are better than women, that we should freely pollute the environment for money, or that someone is better merely because of skin color. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/103 "2017-08-09T20:43:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > As someone pointed out, a “dog whistle” that attracts the attention of cats better than dogs either isn’t a dog whistle at all, or it’s a cat whistle, or it’s a very lousy dog whistle. > > We had another thread a year ago where someone asked for examples of political dog whistles than only the dogs can hear. As I recall it, not a single poster was able to provide an example of one. Maybe this one? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=799442](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=799442) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/104 "2017-08-09T21:17:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I notice several confused comments, for example: > > I’ve only skimmed the thread, so please just tell me: Do the Trumpists and their fellow travelers claim that “Dog whistles don’t exist” or that “Liberals do it too” ? No need to act confused. Many Democrats hear dog whistles. Those same Democrats are more than willing to tell people why others should be hearing those same dog whistles. Personally, I don’t find their arguments very convincing. YMMV? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/105 "2017-08-09T21:21:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No. Because as I have said, the point of dog whistles is deniability. And you can’t have deniability without people denying something. > > One group of people hear the code word, know what it means, and oppose the idea. They denounce the use of the code word and the idea it supports. > > Another group of people hear the code word and know what it means. But they support the idea. So they pretend that there was no code word and deny that there was a hidden meaning in the message. Or claiming someone is using a “dog whistle” allows one to any nefarious meaning desired without proof to one’s target. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/106 "2017-08-09T22:06:03Z")
And here we see why “cosmopolitan” is such a great dog whistle. The mainstream right wingers are all denying that it means anything. It’s just a word! And Miller probably doesn’t even know what it means! It’s just a smear of a fine upstanding person who doesn’t have any alt-right history, as far as they know! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/107 "2017-08-09T22:08:41Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > And here we see why “cosmopolitan” is such a great dog whistle. > > The mainstream right wingers are all denying that it means anything. It’s just a word! And Miller probably doesn’t even know what it means! It’s just a smear of a fine upstanding person who doesn’t have any alt-right history, as far as they know! And that’s exactly why “dog whistle” is itself a “dog whistle.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/108 "2017-08-09T22:27:02Z")
So…“dog whistle” is a term that seems innocuous, but certain people know what it means? Like, to mainstream America it means a secret hidden message, but cultural marxists know it means…what exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/109 "2017-08-09T23:06:53Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So…“dog whistle” is a term that seems innocuous, but certain people know what it means? > > Like, to mainstream America it means a secret hidden message, but cultural marxists know it means…what exactly? One thing that would be helpful is if the self-professed experts on “dog whistles” provided real-life examples of speakers using them and add subtitles to point out when they occur, who the target audience is and what they really mean. I have never seen anything like that even in the examples given in this thread. Literal dog whistles are easy to demonstrate and cause an immediate reaction that people can’t detect. I have never seen proof of something similar for different human listeners. Obviously, politicians alter their jargon all the time to fit their intended audience of the day (e.g., they aren’t going to give the same speech to coal miners and Wall Street executives) but that is open to anyone that is paying attention and doesn’t qualify as a dog whistle in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/110 "2017-08-09T23:07:39Z")
I don’t really know why the term “dog whistle” needs to replace “euphemism”. The former seems to imply intentionality, which is even more difficult to prove than just claiming it’s a euphemism to avoid saying something that would otherwise be unacceptable. Not only that, but it implies a conspiracy which is even harder to swallow most of the time. Dog whistle is a euphemism for euphemism. Where euphemism maybe doesn’t sound damning enough. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/111 "2017-08-09T23:22:10Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > One thing that would be helpful is if the self-professed experts on “dog whistles” provided real-life examples of speakers using them and add subtitles to point out when they occur, who the target audience is and what they really mean. I have never seen anything like that even in the examples given in this thread. Literal dog whistles are easy to demonstrate and cause an immediate reaction that people can’t detect. I have never seen proof of something similar for different human listeners. > > Obviously, politicians alter their jargon all the time to fit their intended audience of the day (e.g., they aren’t going to give the same speech to coal miners and Wall Street executives) but that is open to anyone that is paying attention and doesn’t qualify as a dog whistle in my opinion. Why exactly do you think Miller used the term “cosmopolitan” when chastising a journalist? Especially since in context it doesn’t even make sense? Miller used the term because he’s an alt-right activist, and “cosmopolitan” is a term of art used in alt-right circles. It isn’t an exact synonym for “Jew”, I’ll give you that. But it’s not a word that he read yesterday and repeated incorrectly today. Ex-military guys will sometimes use military jargon to signal their membership in the group. Christians will sometimes use Christian jargon to signal their membership. Left wingers will do it too, although you hardly ever hear national politicians using left-wing jargon aside from Bernie Sanders. It’s not that the dog whistle is a secret code. It’s a shibboleth that’s obvious to people who know what the person is talking about, and doesn’t mean much to people who don’t know what the person is talking about. ---
**Author:** ![str8cashhomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@str8cashhomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/str8cashhomie)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/112 "2017-08-09T23:26:39Z")
Here’s an article from white nationalist site dailystormer that acknowledges the use of “cosmopolitan” as referring to a Jewish conspiracy to mix nationalities and destroy cultures. He cites an Israeli using the term as the Jews being upset at what he sees as karma. > **[Daily Stormer | Your News Source for the Latest Crypto Updates](https://www.dailystormer.com)** > >   TRENDING MAGA Hat Crypto Skyrockets as Trump Trumps Biden in Georgia Poll – Can It Hit $1? June 26, 2024 Bitcoin Primed to Defy Gravity: Analyst Reveals Compelling Historical Evidence June 26, 2024 TRON Takes Charge: CryptoQuant’s... > [@](#): > > Note that he uses describes Jews who are insufficiently supportive of Israel as “cosmopolitan, anchorless”. This is very close to the term “rootless cosmpolitans” that was used to describe Jews in the USSR. And, of course, it echoes the classic criticism European patriots make (the ones who are brave enough) of Jewish intellectual and political activism, namely that it is expressive of a deracinated cosmpolitan idealism that undermines their ancestral culture and identity. When European patriots voice these sentiments, however, they are hounded as antisemites, persecuted and, in many cases, prosecuted. But when Jews make exactly the same points about exactly the same people, apparently it’s OK. Another dailystormer article refers to a Jewish woman as a “Cosmo Jewess”: [Daily Stormer | Your News Source for the Latest Crypto Updates](https://www.dailystormer.com/cosmo-jewess-immediately-dump-a-man-who-wont-use-a-vibrator/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/113 "2017-08-09T23:53:31Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Why exactly do you think Miller used the term “cosmopolitan” when chastising a journalist? Especially since in context it doesn’t even make sense? > > Miller used the term because he’s an alt-right activist, and “cosmopolitan” is a term of art used in alt-right circles. It isn’t an exact synonym for “Jew”, I’ll give you that. But it’s not a word that he read yesterday and repeated incorrectly today. You know that Miller is Jewish, right? That is not say he is immune for using “dog whistles”, but it does weaken the case in this instance, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/114 "2017-08-10T04:31:07Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And conversely, the viewpoints you described are not accurate - the real honest belief of many of the people you describe is \*\*\*not \*\*\*that men are better than women, that we should freely pollute the environment for money, or that someone is better merely because of skin color. My argument doesn’t require that everyone hold those beliefs. In fact, I have explicitly said that not everyone holds those beliefs. What I said is that _some_ people hold the beliefs that I mentioned. So if you want to argue with me over what I actually said, go ahead. Tell me that there’s nobody in this country who believes that they’re better than other people because of what color skin they have. I’d enjoy seeing you try to make that argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/115 "2017-08-10T15:30:35Z")
[quote=“John\_Mace, post:113, topic:793070”] You know that Miller is Jewish, right? /QUOTE] Hellenized Jew. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/116 "2017-08-10T15:36:20Z")
Is that some sort of dog whistle? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/117 "2017-08-10T15:42:33Z")
The clearest example of a dog whistle in recent memory was Ted Cruz’s, “New York values,” comment. It was a signal to South Carolina voters that he was like them and not a horrible piece of shit liberal New Yorker who loves gays and drugs like Donald Trump. I am paraphrasing of course and the phrase meant different things to different people, but the important part was that he was able to send a message along those lines while simultaneously being able to claim that he never said anything bad about the fine people of New York. He was flat out asked directly what he meant by, “New York values,” and instead of clarifying answered with something along the lines of, “You know what I meant (wink, wink).” If this incident doesn’t convince you (general you) that dog whistles exist, you are unconvincable, and I can’t see the point of discussing the topic further with you. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/118 "2017-08-10T15:52:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is that some sort of dog whistle? Yes. Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/119 "2017-08-10T17:32:41Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes. Yes it is. I was wondering where all that drool on my computer came from!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070/120 "2017-08-10T17:41:07Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > The clearest example of a dog whistle in recent memory was Ted Cruz’s, “New York values,” comment. > > It was a signal to South Carolina voters that he was like them and not a horrible piece of shit liberal New Yorker who loves gays and drugs like Donald Trump. I am paraphrasing of course and the phrase meant different things to different people, but the important part was that he was able to send a message along those lines while simultaneously being able to claim that he never said anything bad about the fine people of New York. > > He was flat out asked directly what he meant by, “New York values,” and instead of clarifying answered with something along the lines of, “You know what I meant (wink, wink).” > > If this incident doesn’t convince you (general you) that dog whistles exist, you are unconvincable, and I can’t see the point of discussing the topic further with you. But everyone knew what that meant. And of course it sorta backfired with _people in NY_, for obvious reasons. Remember the [Pace Picante Sauce commercial](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSxnieYctVM&ab_channel=JasonElder), where the guy is making fun of the stuff that wasn’t Pace, and then he reads the label as to where it’s manufactured and it says “New York City!!!”. It’s like calling Nancy Pelosi a “San Francisco Liberal” instead of a “Liberal”. Again, that’s just a euphemism or a marketing term. The message is not hidden. Why do you think the fancy restaurants serve “Roasted Greenbriar Farm Chicken Breast” instead of “Roasted Chicken Breast”? It’s meant to trigger a response in everyone, not just the folks who know the secret handshake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dog-whistles-are-stupid/793070.md?page=7)