# DOGE; the department of Government Efficiency **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [November 13, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227 "2024-11-13T23:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/181 "2024-11-26T22:00:45Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The Pentagon just recently failed their 7th audit in a row. They can’t tell us where all the money is going. I’d think there is a lot of room for improvement there. Are those annual audits? If so, that would mean they started failing them from early in the first Trump administration. That doesn’t give me great faith in Trump to fix the problem. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > It’s similar to me mentioning, upthread, that some sort of flat tax could probably be administered _much_ more efficiently than our current ungodly, unwieldy scheme (but I’m about 95% sure it would force the wealthy to pay a whole lot more, so … hard to imagine Elmo and Vivek shouting that one on day one). Income taxes are unwieldy because of the incredibly complicated rules defining what counts as income. Once you know that, calculating how much tax you owe is very simple. A flat tax, absent any other changes, would take that simple part and make it a little bit simpler. If you want it to raise as much revenue as before, high-earners would pay less than they do now, and low-earners would pay more. If you want to simplify federal income taxes, then simplify the rules defining income. That can be done without changing the tax rates. People who advocate for a flat tax in the name of simplicity are being disingenuous, or falling for someone else who is. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/182 "2024-11-26T22:03:19Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are those annual audits? Yup. From the article @PhillyGuy provided in [Post #176](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/176): > When the Pentagon launched its first-ever independent financial audit [back in 2017](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/08/569394885/pentagon-announces-first-ever-audit-of-the-department-of-defense), backers of accountability in government welcomed it as a major step for a department with a track record of financial boondoggles. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > A flat tax, absent any other changes, would take that simple part and make it a little bit simpler. If you want it to raise as much revenue as before, high-earners would pay less than they do now, and low-earners would pay more. Define “high earners”? > [Warren] Buffett’s secretary since 1993, [Debbie Bosanek](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/state-of-the-union-the-buffett-rule-returns/), sat next to her boss just hours after being invited by the president to the State of the Union address, where the president made her the face of tax inequality in America. > > Bosanek pays a tax rate of 35.8 percent of income, while Buffett pays a rate at 17.4 percent.- [SOURCE](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/01/warren-buffett-and-his-secretary-talk-taxes) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/183 "2024-11-26T22:15:01Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If you want to simplify federal income taxes, then simplify the rules defining income. That can be done without changing the tax rates. That’s fair. I used ‘flat tax’ as a surrogate for reining in the ‘unwieldy’ and ‘ungodly’ aspects that tend to give **[massive deductions to the relative few](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/921817)** and that constitutes the 75,000 page Tax Code and US Treasury’s interpretation _of_ that code. Details to be worked out 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/184 "2024-11-26T22:15:31Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Zero out the Corporation for Public Broadcasting? Sure. But when it comes to big money items, Trump and DOGE are going have an unhappy falling out. And, of course, cutting something like the CPB would seem on-brand for Trump and his supporters (i.e., fighting against liberal cultural stuff). That said, as you note, it’s no “big money item,” in the grand scheme of things. The CPB is currently slated to receive an appropriation of $545 million in fiscal 2026; that amounts to 0.00008% of the Federal budget. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/185 "2024-11-26T22:20:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yup. If 2017 was the first such audit, then it’s possible that they would have been failiing for many years before, so I probably shouldn’t be blaming it on Trump. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Define “high earners”? I’m not sure where the cutoff would be, or how Buffet structured his income in order to get such a low rate. [This page](https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets) shows the current brackets and rates. If you want a flat tax somewhere in the middle, maybe 23%, then the low brackets go up and the high brackets go down. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/186 "2024-11-26T22:28:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > …that amounts to 0.00008% of the Federal budget. I think it is more like 0.008% ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/187 "2024-11-26T22:29:18Z")
The one where they were funding gain-of-function research on deadly viruses, please thanks. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/188 "2024-11-26T22:39:19Z")
You mean one of the Covid deniers favorite bugbears? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/189 "2024-11-26T22:47:57Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The one where they were funding gain-of-function research on deadly viruses, please thanks. > **I'll do us all the courtesy of preemptively hiding this as likely OT.** > > We can probably do better than reductive statements on complex issues. Just to shine even a bit of light on this one … > > [The Wuhan Lab and the Gain-of-Function Disagreement - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2021/05/the-wuhan-lab-and-the-gain-of-function-disagreement/) > > **TL;DR** : "Gain-of-Function is just another RW snarl word that – to the cognoscenti – basically means “virology research.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/190 "2024-11-26T23:28:40Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > Zero out the Corporation for Public Broadcasting? Sure. But when it comes to big money items, Trump and DOGE are going have an unhappy falling out. > > And, of course, cutting something like the CPB would seem on-brand for Trump and his supporters (i.e., fighting against liberal cultural stuff). That said, as you note, it’s no “big money item,” in the grand scheme of things. The CPB is currently slated to receive an appropriation of $545 million in fiscal 2026; that amounts to 0.00008% of the Federal budget. Complaints about the money spent on public broadcasting go _way_ back. I remember during the Reagan administration (I think) someone making similar complaints about how much federal money went to public broadcasting and then someone else pointed out that roughly the same amount was spent by the Defense Department on military bands. (Googling, currently the dozens of military bands cost something like $300 million, so on the same order of magnitude.) And as far back as _1969_, Fred Rogers (of Mister Rogers Neighborhood) testified before Congress to defend spending on public broadcasting. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/191 "2024-11-26T23:32:51Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > We can probably do better than reductive statements on complex issues. Just to shine even a bit of light on this one … Blah blah right-wing bad; it was always risky and they’ve long known it was risky. I doubt I’m going to agree with much else Trump does, so it would be nice to have a small silver lining. [https://www.science.org/content/article/nih-lifts-3-year-ban-funding-risky-virus-studies](https://www.science.org/content/article/nih-lifts-3-year-ban-funding-risky-virus-studies) ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/192 "2024-11-26T23:52:44Z")
Do you think fauci should be in jail? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/193 "2024-11-27T01:12:58Z")
Why would any rational, informed person give any response other than “Hell, no” to that question? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/194 "2024-11-27T01:15:06Z")
No? Why on earth should he be? ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/195 "2024-11-27T01:17:00Z")
Almost every person I’ve talked to who uses the term gain-of-function in that manner has advocated for jail time. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/196 "2024-11-27T01:40:30Z")
Please don’t start weird hijacks again. **Moderating:** Please drop the Fauci stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/197 "2024-11-27T09:17:52Z")
Didn’t see mod note. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/198 "2024-11-27T14:16:32Z")
Nope. I also missed the mod note. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/199 "2024-11-28T15:38:18Z")
Whenever is see DOGE, I see DODGE. They are dodging efficiency after all. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/200 "2024-11-28T16:47:58Z")
Why don’t we call it what it really is: the department of retribution and vengeance (DORV) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=11)