# DOGE; the department of Government Efficiency **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [November 13, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227 "2024-11-13T23:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/221 "2024-12-12T16:13:03Z")
Yes. They don’t recognize that they need new tires, they want a new paint job. Children really. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/222 "2024-12-12T16:18:03Z")
DOGE doesn’t even exist yet and it already figures into a scam. > > Trademark registrants- check correspondence for a fake letter being used as a scam. The letter mentions a $599 attestation fee & “Department of Government Efficiency” (DOGE), which is not a federal agency. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/223 "2024-12-12T16:23:54Z")
I find it hilarious that there’s going to be _ **yet another government department** _ so that government can be made smaller. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/224 "2024-12-12T16:26:35Z")
Didn’t Reagan also complain about the size of government but also add to the Cabinet-level departments (I think by upgrading Veterans Affairs to Cabinet level) during his term? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/225 "2024-12-12T16:34:52Z")
Reagan basically did the same thing Trump is doing now, but arguably better. He had a businessman - Peter Grace, head up a commission to identify government waste (despite being called a ‘department’, DOGE is also basically a commission that can offer recommendations but has no actual authority). Grace proceeded to get a lot of other business people together, spent a year and a half looking through everything and basically found squat, though they made a lot of noise about it. Basically, it was (and largely still is) impossible to produce any significant cuts or ‘efficiency’ gains without eliminating something people want/need. The imagined ‘waste’ never really existed. > **[Grace Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Commission)** > > The Private Sector Survey on Cost Control (PSSCC), commonly referred to as the Grace Commission, was an investigation requested by United States President Ronald Reagan, authorized in Executive Order 12369 on June 30, 1982. In doing so President Reagan used the now famous phrase, "Drain the swamp". The survey's focus was on eliminating waste and inefficiency in the United States federal government. Businessman J. Peter Grace chaired the commission. Reagan asked the members of that commis The G... ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/226 "2024-12-12T21:07:09Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > This whole thing pisses me off. No I don’t work for the federal government. I work for county government. > > We work our asses off. … > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Every time you hear the idiotic phrase deep state, think career civil servants, because that’s who they are targeting. Many toil for years for not a huge amount of money and little recognition but keep the wheels in motion. 38 years w/ federal gov’t here. I also have failed to meet the lazy overpaid do nothings in that time. Sure, every office has a couple. But I bet the same is true for most private companies. And - yeah - it can be tough to fire them. One lousy thing about our office is, if you can someone, you may not be able to replace them. So even if Lazy Joe is only doing 10% of what he should, if you can him, that’s 10% of an FTE the rest of the staff has to eat. Perhaps there is a benefit to trying to weed out those bottomfeeders, but I sure haven’t heard anything suggesting such a tailored approach. Unlike the billionaires, I have been repeatedly impressed at the effort expended by feds at al pay levels, in jobs that were often neither terribly pleasant nor well compensated. And the vast majority do at least a decent amount of decent quality work. Having a shitstain like Trump - and his buddies - paint the entire bureaucracy as the problem, when most are just decent schmucks trying to do a decent job - gets old. Sure doesn’t motivate THIS schmuck from going over and above. (Earlier this week, my production placed me 3d out of 1175 folk in my position, so I’m not exactly part of the problem - at least in terms of productivity.) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/227 "2024-12-12T21:24:35Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Unlike the billionaires, I have been repeatedly impressed at the effort expended by feds at al pay levels, in jobs that were often neither terribly pleasant nor well compensated. And the vast majority do at least a decent amount of decent quality work. I feel like the pandemic should have put paid to a lot of nonsense about government and government workers vs. the private sector. We were always told that private businesses were “more agile” that those dinosaurs in government, that they could react quickly to changes in the marketplace, while government was hide-bound by rules, regulations and procedures. But then the pandemic hit, with a lot of Canada’s government employees switching to full-time work at home. We made that switch almost immediately. Hundreds of thousands of us. There were some initial problems, as our computer systems weren’t set up for that kind of load, so we had to adjust our work patterns to accommodate the increased loads. But those problems were recognized, and fixed within a few months, when it was clear that we’d be staying home much longer than any expected at first. But private businesses? We had downtown businesses whining about how their usual lunch crowds had disappeared. We had landlords complaining about empty office spaces, we had parking lot operators bemoaning the lack of daily commuters. And that whining went on _for years_. Some of them are _still_ whining about the lingering effects of the pandemic on their bottom line. These people have had years now to find a new business model, and they just completely shit the bed. Anything less than a complete return to the pre-pandemic model of only serving commuters is rejected outright. They simply can’t conceive of anything new and innovative, business-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/228 "2024-12-12T21:33:53Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > But then the pandemic hit, with a lot of Canada’s government employees switching to full-time work at home. > > We made that switch almost immediately. My office holds hearings. Previously, the standard was for all hrgs to be held in-office. Phone or video were VERY frequent exceptions. With covid, our hearings are now almost 100% virtual. And guess who really loves it? The claimants and their attorneys! They have the option of in person hrgs, but not 1 out of 40 requests that. If DOGE makes us all go back into the office, will they make the clmts and reps return to in person hrgs? 😃 (My work at home is covered by a collective bargaining agreement with several years to run. If they want to try to get around that, I’ll find that interesting. But I doubt it can be circumvented quickly…) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/229 "2024-12-12T21:40:11Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > We were always told that private businesses were “more agile” that those dinosaurs in government, that they could react quickly to changes in the marketplace, while government was hide-bound by rules, regulations and procedures. Here in the United States, a lot of states found out just how out-of-date their computer networks and servers really were and they could not handle the number of people applying for unemployment benefits. New Jersey was asking for volunteers who knew COBOL to assist. Volunteers not paid individuals. States like to save money by not investing in their infrastructure and when an unusual situation arises that infrastructure fails. DOGE isn’t really about saving that tax payers money. It’s about ending programs and doing as much damage as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/230 "2024-12-12T21:47:13Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Maybe not so much? > > > The Congress shall have Power…To establish Post Offices and post Roads > > They have the _power_ to establish post offices, but it doesn’t seem to _require_ them to do so. Neither does it specify how many they may establish. Even if you were it interpret this as a requirement, two offices and two road would meet the minimum requirements, since they used the plural. So, an office in New York, one in New Jersey, and two separate routes connecting them (for redundancy in the case of an emergency), and they’re done. > > [Postal Clause - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Clause) Interesting theory. We could apply the same logic to the 2nd amendment and limit gun owners to 2 “arms”. Or my personal favorite, use the exact text of the 2nd and remind people that they are only entitled to keep and bear arms. The right to purchase guns is nowhere to be found in the amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/231 "2024-12-12T22:45:31Z")
Not to mention, no mention of ammunition. Have a gun, sure, but bullets? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/232 "2024-12-12T22:51:43Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > We were always told that private businesses were “more agile” that those dinosaurs in government, that they could react quickly to changes in the marketplace, while government was hide-bound by rules, regulations and procedures. Not for me. Shit we had 500 people set up to work from home in 2-3 weeks. That is pretty damn agile. I work with some incredible people. No dead wood in our department. My grand boss at the time then asked, “Do you want to work from home, or come in” Understand that I had one the best office spaces in the entire county government. “I’ll work from home thank you very much” It’s great. No regrets at all. If I was asked to come in, I would say “Nice working with you, bye bye” ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2024, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/233 "2024-12-12T23:44:41Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Basically, it was (and largely still is) impossible to produce any significant cuts or ‘efficiency’ gains without eliminating something people want/need. Its a lot easier if you don’t care what anybody (or at least anybody with less than a billion dollars) wants/needs. ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_trav511](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@Ash\_trav511](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ash_trav511)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/234 "2024-12-20T08:28:18Z")
Post by so-called DOGE handle on X… "You think Congress is mad now. Wait until we are officially up & running. Congress & their lobbyists are going to lose their minds. Make sure to follow us, buckle up, & enjoy the ride". ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/235 "2024-12-20T10:37:36Z")
My understanding is that Leon sabotaged the first Continuing Resolution because it had a provision requiring Social Media to police revenge porn on their platforms. Didn’t want to have to do that on Xitter. The second one didn’t have that provision, but it failed due to deficit hawks not liking Trump’s requirement that the Debt Limit be ignored for the next two years. So who’s going to trash the third one? Probably back to one of the Doge-bros. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/236 "2024-12-20T11:21:47Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > So who’s going to trash the third one? Trump will trash it, just to prove that he’s the For Real Presidenty Guy, not that Elmo character. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/237 "2024-12-20T13:22:15Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > My understanding is that Leon sabotaged the first Continuing Resolution because it had a provision requiring Social Media to police revenge porn on their platforms. Didn’t want to have to do that on Xitter. Can you cite that? I’m not doubting you, but there are a few fanboys I’d like to show this to, and I will be asked to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Ash\_trav511](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@Ash\_trav511](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ash_trav511)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/238 "2024-12-20T13:47:54Z")
Who is Elon threatening here > ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/239 "2024-12-20T13:57:41Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Can you cite that? It’s something I read on DailyKos, which is, shall we say, a slightly less than unbiased source. I realize now I should have mentioned that in my original post. I’ll see if I can find it. OK, found it. However, on rereading the very short article, I get the impression this was just a guess on the part of the person who wrote it. I don’t think they have any confirmation. Here’s the link > **[The \*REAL\* reason Musk tanked the budget deal](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/12/19/2292867/-The-REAL-reason-Musk-tanked-the-budget-deal?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=trending&pm_medium=web)** > > This is short. I was reading this New York Times piece this morning (I know, I know) about the year-end budget deal and everything that was in it. www.nytimes.com/… This part jumped out: Criminalizing the publication of “nonconsensual intimate... ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/240 "2024-12-20T14:21:12Z")
New thread about that started here: > [@Elon Musk Using his Wealth to Threaten Politicians](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/): > > OK, so Musk is out there threatening to primary anyone he doesn’t like if they don’t give him what he wants. He’s now threatening Democrats as well as Republicans. And the thing is, he has the resources to do it, and we know it can work. I’m curious whether there’s a legal argument that can be made that an individual shouldn’t be able to do this. Perhaps deeming it blackmail or bribery? I’m not expecting anyone here to argue that it’s just fine, so that’s not the debate I’m looking for. I’m w… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=13)