# DOGE; the department of Government Efficiency **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [November 13, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227 "2024-11-13T23:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/281 "2025-02-06T04:01:46Z")
> **Musk’s DOGE granted access to US Medicare and Medicaid systems** > The representatives have been on site at the agency’s offices this week and are looking at the technology on which the systems run, as well as the spending that flows through them, with a focus on pinpointing what they consider fraud or waste, according to the report, opens new tab. > DOGE representatives are also examining the agency’s organizational design and how it is staffed, the WSJ said. > Referencing the WSJ report, Musk - without providing evidence - posted “this is where the big money fraud is happening,” on social media platform X, which he owns. Anyone else’s money on what they consider fraud and waste is the medical care of the elderly, disabled, and poor? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/282 "2025-02-06T04:04:41Z")
Remember when the right cried about Obama’s “death panels”? Now they will be praising Musk’s death panels. They’ve already started in Africa. Now coming to a country near you! ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/283 "2025-02-06T04:08:21Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Anyone else’s money on what they consider fraud and waste is the medical care of the elderly, disabled, and poor? Medicare and Medicaid already have people looking for fraud. Every once in a while there’s a news report on someone being caught. I really doubt these Dodgy guys are going to do a better job than the experienced professionals. Whatever they find will probably turn out to be legitimate expenses that look questionable to the unintiated. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/284 "2025-02-06T04:14:23Z")
Malcolm Gladwell talks about the rampant Medicare fraud coming out of Miami in his recent book. It does exist and should be addressed. I just don’t trust these techbro douchcanoes to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/285 "2025-02-06T11:46:10Z")
How about increasing the number of professionals looking for fraud and abuse in Medicare payments? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/286 "2025-02-06T12:53:30Z")
I’ve posted it before, but … Ever hear of the [**Free Concert at Altamont (1969)**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Free_Concert)? The organizers decided to contract security to the Hell’s Angels motorcycle club for about $500 worth of beer. Violence was the result. Scores were injured. At least one died. Property damage was ginormous. It was a disaster. This is an example of the wrong solution to a legitimate problem. Trump identified a few legitimate problems in the 2016 and 2024 campaigns, but he was the absolutely wrong man, with the absolutely wrong plan, to address those problems. Whatever the question, Trump isn’t the answer. Whatever the problem, Trump isn’t the solution. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How about increasing the number of professionals looking for fraud and abuse in Medicare payments? That comports well with firing all the Inspectors General and appointing Mehmet Oz to head CMS. /s ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/287 "2025-02-06T13:00:28Z")
That’s the thing. If they really were concerned about fraud and abuse, they would be increasing the number of inspectors. This kind of work can increase revenues more than the added costs. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/288 "2025-02-06T13:27:54Z")
Yes, yes, yes. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/289 "2025-02-06T13:35:02Z")
I understand how Musk’s hackers can, if given access, get into online systems, lock them up, steal data, etc. But I keep reading that Musk’s minions are entering federal buildings, physically locking people out of offices or escorting them out. Who is letting these people in, and where is the official security for these buildings? Supposedly Musk has six or seven geeky 20-year-olds doing all the data looting. Surely it’s not these guys doing the job of physically removing employees from their offices. So who is it and why are they being allowed in these buildings? Does Musk have a private goon squad? Or are the evictors some other federal employees being empowered to do this? Like so many others, I am incensed, I want to do something, I’m not sure what to do other than write emails, call Congressmen, donate and go to protests. And I want answers as to what the Dems or Pubs with a spine (rare, I’m sure) are doing about all this. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/290 "2025-02-06T13:42:31Z")
That particular question is being discussed here: > [@What law enforcement agency/agencies have the authority to block DOGE from entering/extract DOGE from Federal buildings?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-law-enforcement-agency-agencies-have-the-authority-to-block-doge-from-entering-extract-doge-from-federal-buildings/1013936): > > What the OP says. Let’s keep it in FQ, please. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/291 "2025-02-06T15:56:31Z")
They won’t touch benefits for the elderly. They are reliable voters. However, as you may be aware, SS Disability has basically replaced welfare since Clinton’s reforms. It’s one of those open secrets that for some reason goes ignored. I’m not saying that everyone on Disability is faking it, but a very large number are. [![](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/disability_trends/chart01.gif) ](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/disability_trends/chart01.gif) [![](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/disability_trends/chart02.gif) ](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/chartbooks/disability_trends/chart02.gif) I would expect they’ll go after that. Which, will then end up in the Leopards thread, since disability recipients tend to be hire in red states (though not exclusively) > **[State Disability Maps](https://www.mathematica.org/dataviz/state-disability-maps)** > > With these maps, Mathematica helps decision makers uncover valuable insights about the prevalence of disability and use of disability benefits in different communities. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/292 "2025-02-06T16:26:24Z")
I had that impression; that a lot of people were claiming disability benefits despite very limited disability and that, perhaps, disability is socially acceptable whereas welfare is not. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/293 "2025-02-06T16:29:15Z")
I don’t know what’s wrong with me- why I used “hire” when I meant “higher,” but I missed the edit window. Stupid job. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/294 "2025-02-06T16:29:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > disability is socially acceptable whereas welfare is not. Welfare benefits have a lifetime limit, disability doesn’t. SSI became the new welfare because we allowed welfare to be knee-capped. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/295 "2025-02-06T20:45:11Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > However, as you may be aware, SS Disability has basically replaced welfare since Clinton’s reforms. Thank you very much for stating this so plainly. I have long stopped being surprised by the number of folk who do not appreciate this. I also suggest “faking it” may be a not optimal term. The standard is supposed to be (broadly stated) that an individual is unable to perform their past work or other appropriate work. That, of course, is processed through a complicated regulatory framework. Many people apply (and receive) DIB and SSI, not because they are incapable of performing undemanding (and low paying) work, but instead, they receive benefits because the regulatory framework has them fall into a favorable pigeonhole. Many people retire, and seek disability benefits, knowing that will get them onto Medicare and increase their retirement benefits. They are just playing the system according to the rules. I do not “respect” such people - the same way I do not respect the rich person who manages to grossly reduce their taxes. But they are just taking advantage of the rules as written. Many other people claim they are not working because of their physical and/or mental/emotional symptoms. Whereas other folk with seemingly similar or worse conditions do whatever it takes to work. I’m not sure folk claiming they are unable to work because of fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, or any number of other conditions lacking clear objective findings are “faking it.” I also think there ought to be far more vocational training, education, etc. - instead of declaring someone “disabled” - presumptively for life. But it is more “efficient” to simply cut a check for benefit than to staff and manage such training programs. There are countless ways in which SS disability programs could be revised to intelligently reflect current economic/medical/societal trends. I have no expectation that the current administration will pursue any such intelligent and targeted measures. Final observation/example, the recent change to consider as past work only work done in the past 5 years (was previously 15) has resulted in a great increase of awards - cases which would have been straightforward denials the day before the rules were changed. I did not understand any of the explanations for why that was supposed to be a good thing, other than a desire to award more people benefits. But I’m getting quite off topic. ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/296 "2025-02-12T14:35:01Z")
Forgive me if this has been asked already; I’m having a hard time keeping up with all of the relevant threads. Who, exactly, _are_ these DOGE people. By that, I mean, are they US government employees? Independent contractors? Just randos? If they are employees, there’s all kinds of admin rules and law governing their behavior, right? If contractors, there must be terms to the contract and specific definitions of the work to be done, etc. If randos, why aren’t government personnel telling them to GTFO of their offices? I feel like I haven’t seen any reporting as to exactly how these assholes were onboarded, who’s actually in charge of whom, and where, exactly, they fit into the Federal government bureaucracy. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/297 "2025-02-12T15:49:20Z")
So…Musk and his pimply pirates are determining the efficiency, and right to exist, of governmental departments based soley on info gleaned from blinking numbers on their computer screens? How do they do that? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/298 "2025-02-12T15:53:48Z")
Re last carlb post: [ProPublica: The Staffers Helping Elon Musk Dismantle and Downsize the U.S. Government, One Agency at a Time](https://www.propublica.org/article/elon-musk-doge-staffers-additional-names) My link does not say who is paying the 30 listed staffers. My guess is that Musk is paying the ones who used to work for his companies. > [@carlb](#): > > If randos, why aren’t government personnel telling them to GTFO of their offices? As a retired fed, here’s my guess. First, most people who work for the federal government are not big risk-takers. Second, a lot more than you might think voted for Trump and will want to cooperate with DOGE. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/299 "2025-02-12T17:29:33Z")
Third, some people are, but then the Musketeers wave paper from Trump saying that they now have security clearance and access rights. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/300 "2025-02-12T17:49:39Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > If randos, why aren’t government personnel telling them to GTFO of their offices? I wonder if, in the next few weeks, someone who is sufficiently pissed off and frustrated will actually try this and it gets physical, with some unexpectedly serious outcome. This could get messy and/or nastier (than it already is, I mean). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=16)