# DOGE; the department of Government Efficiency **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [November 13, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227 "2024-11-13T23:28:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2025, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/301 "2025-02-12T18:20:23Z")
The good guys are losing the PR battle. All Musk has to do is say that the US is paying $100 billion dollars to promote gay comic books in Peru, and this is swallowed whole by the gullible and before you know it, ALL foreign aid will be cut off due to his gross lies. People are going to die because of this asshole. The lies are coming in so fast that they cannot be refuted as quick as they come in, and a plurality of the people are inclined to believe the lies anyway. We’re totally fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/302 "2025-02-13T17:57:45Z")
And how do you refute it effectively? If Musk says “$100 billion, gay comic books, I read them, they are gross, believe me…” what does the opposition say? “That is not anywhere in the budget, this is just a lie”? The general public, who hasn’t seen the budget and is only dimly aware that there even IS a budget, how are they convinced? How do you prove a negative? Congress should demand Musk show his evidence, at the least write up some report with cites that is publicly available (not that most of the public would read it), but even at that, how do we prove to the public that he’s a liar? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/303 "2025-02-13T19:40:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Presumably “dozsh”, as in “the Doge of Venice”. Nobody will ever convince me that the connection with the historical authoritarian oligarchs is coincidental. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/304 "2025-02-13T20:02:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Nobody will ever convince me that the connection with the historical authoritarian oligarchs is coincidental I’m pretty sure “doge” as a comical mispronunciation of “dog” originated with Homestar Runner, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/305 "2025-02-13T20:03:12Z")
Not convinced. DOGE is headed by an authoritarian oligarch. I mean, the Dogecoin connection may be semi-intentional, but the Doge of Venice connection is spot-on. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/306 "2025-02-13T20:06:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I mean, the Dogecoin connection may be semi-intentional Semi? Elmo is OBSESSED with 20-year-old memes because he’s an insecure incel manchild stuck in a midlife crisis. I’m not sure he could tell you what a doge was if you asked him. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/307 "2025-02-13T20:08:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m not sure he could tell you what a doge was if you asked him. I assumed non-Americans are better educated in world history. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/308 "2025-02-13T20:09:03Z")
I’ve not seen much out of Elon Musk to convince me that he’s very well-educated in general. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/309 "2025-02-13T20:20:31Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > As a retired fed, here’s my guess. > > First, most people who work for the federal government are not big risk-takers. > > Second, a lot more than you might think voted for Trump and will want to cooperate with DOGE. Probably related to your point #1, while many govt employees believe strongly in that their Agency is doing something of value, they are also very used to getting orders that they just have to follow - whether or not the orders make sense or the worker agrees with them. Like most working stiffs, most govt workers’ primary consideration is keeping their job/paycheck. So don’t look to govt workers as some first line of defense, any more than you expect the schmuck in the next cubicle over from you to charge the barricades. Govt employees had some ability to speak out when they enjoyed robust civil service protections. But I would not expect anyone to count on those these days. I imagine the common attitude is for everyone to keep their heads down, and act “every man for themself”, hoping that whatever unpleasantness is in store isn’t as bad as one fears, and hoping the other guy gets hurt before you do. I assume the folk who have the most private industry options are sending off resumes. So we’re going to immediately lose 2 groups of employees: those who were stupid enough to believe the govt when they were assured they could work remotely; and the most capable/marketable. Most everyone else will just lower their standards and try to care less. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/310 "2025-02-13T20:28:15Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > So we’re going to immediately lose 2 groups of employees: those who were stupid enough to believe the govt when they were assured they could work remotely; and the most capable/marketable. There’s a new third group: probationary employees. > **[Scores of firings have begun at federal agencies | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/12/politics/scores-of-firings-federal-agencies)** > > Scores of firings have begun at federal agencies, with terminations of probationary employees underway at the Department of Education and the Small Business Administration, federal employees and union sources told CNN Wednesday. This will predominantly be new hires, still in training. You know, the people you’re going to need to keep the organization running in the future. The “deferred resignation” thing will mostly take away people close to retirement, so you lose a lot of institutional knowledge. This firing takes away the trainees, so they’ll never get a chance to learn that stuff. As you say, the best of everyone left will be looking to find new jobs. Those left will be expected to pick up the slack, and won’t have time or energy to worry about the long-term health of the organization. This will kill effective organizations, even if Trump&Musk can’t just get rid of them entirely. They’ll just slowly crumble, becoming less and less useful over time. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/311 "2025-02-13T20:29:12Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > There’s a new third group: probationary employees. Yeah - that was a no-brainer. They’re gone. Still interested in ANYONE explaining any legal basis for the “deferred resignation.” Silly me - in my experience, pretty much the FIRST thing asked WRT any govt action is, “what is the legal authority for this action?” Sometimes the justifications are tenuous, but you always at least pretend to identify the authority. Now, it simply seems to be “Trump/Musk wanna.” Strange days indeed. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/312 "2025-02-13T23:38:42Z")
Here’s the DOGE website where Musk will try to overwhelm rational thought with numbers. Department of Government Efficiency - The people voted for major reform. [Work | DOGE: Department of Government Efficiency](https://www.doge.gov/) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/313 "2025-02-13T23:39:38Z")
I wonder when the Department of Government Efficiency will turn its attention to the USPS and try shutting that one down. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/314 "2025-02-14T09:19:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@Smapti](#): > > > > I’m not sure he could tell you what a doge was if you asked him. > > I assumed non-Americans are better educated in world history. Besides the memecoin-scam Musk likes to perpetrate, I’ve also wondered if the name isn’t a conscious allusion to [Curtis Yarvin’s ‘RAGE’](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/21/curtis-yarvin-trump), i.e. ‘Retire All Government Employees’. Besides that being essentially what they seem to be trying to do, it would also fit with Musk’s penchant for taking an idea and giving it a slight spin to pass it off as his own. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/315 "2025-02-14T11:00:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Many other people claim they are not working because of their physical and/or mental/emotional symptoms. Whereas other folk with seemingly similar or worse conditions do whatever it takes to work. I’m not sure folk claiming they are unable to work because of fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, or any number of other conditions lacking clear objective findings are “faking it.” I’ve mentioned before that I knew a guy who was collecting Social Security Disability, and who was an avid softball player, and who would chuckle amiably when asked about this. I can’t rule out the possibility that he puts on a brave front while truly unable to work, and that he’d prefer to have people falsely conclude that he’s plenty fit as well as plenty clever; I of course also can’t rule out the possibility that, _uh, no, things are exactly as they seem._ ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/316 "2025-02-14T13:01:58Z")
Hidden by @DavidNRockies as starting to veer OT: > **But it's not \*really\* OT, anyway** > > When I hear those stories, or when I hear how somebody with a handicapped placard on their car – but who doesn’t “look handicapped” is excoriated for taking a handicapped parking space – I remind myself that I probably _don’t_ know nearly as much about that person’s health and medical situation as her physicians and the Social Security system does. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/317 "2025-02-14T14:25:52Z")
Yeah - I’m not sure if this is off topic or not, b/c DOGE DID apparently suggest vast SS waste. A softball playing disability recipient is somewhat unusual, but quite a few applicants seem capable of engaging in considerable activities - driving, attending college, travel, extensive socializing, even working part-time - coincidentally _just up to_ the max allowable. Yet the one thing they are adamant that they CANNOT do is work full time! 🙄 But, rather than criticize the applicants/recipients, I would direct my criticism towards the Agency - and society as a whole. By far the largest portion of applicants are folk who have essentially “lost at the American Game of Life.” Think of folk who are below average intelligence, maybe they have substance abuse or criminal histories, maybe they got pregnant or impregnated someone young, likely they have SOME medical problems, they likely lacked strong role models, maybe they came from impoverished backgrounds, perhaps the victims of childhood/sexual abuse… For a simple comparison - consider the bottom quarter of your high school class - including drop outs. Who is going to hire those folk, and for what sorts of jobs? How well ought we expect them to pull themselves up with their bootstraps? I think for many folk, whether one applies for disability or not involves _some_ element of “character.” (I welcome any suggestions for a better word. I have not been able to come up with one.) Some folk will work terribly hard to avoid accepting any assistance/charity/etc. Others seem awfully eager to put their hands out. And many folk might attribute those “character” differences to “mental/emotional pathologies.” However, for the most part, disability applicants/recipients not liging the high life. The vast majority are in the lowest economic levels. I’m not sure how much I begrudge them for seeking benefits of - say - $20k/yr, as opposed to exerting how much effort to get some really shitty low paying job. When I see folk like Musk and his ilk - and even other folk earning over $500k/year, I have a hard time seeing these unfortunate folk as “the problem.” There IS IMO a smaller subset of applicants who apply thinking, _“What the heck. Might as well try. Could be free money.”_ Someone who takes early retirement, but realizes that - because of the intricacies of the disability program, they might qualify for SSDI as well. While I do not really respect such folk, I’m not sure how much criticism they deserve for taking advantage of something that is available to them. Of course, IMO the reality is that SS disability programs are today’s welfare. There are a great many folk who are homeless, or living in extended care. Many others live in households where a number of people depend on one of themselves getting SOME KIND of check - whether it be WC, private/VA/SS disability benefits, unemployment… If you are not a social worker or involved in these sorts of programs, it is VERY EASY for such persons to remain entirely below your radar. Rather than today’s SS disability program, I would favor expanded health care, vocational counseling, sheltered work, etc. But those programs face political opposition - and generally cost more than simply writing a check and then ignoring the least fortunate. Finally - I think that criticizing disability recipients is EXACTLY what Musk etc desire. Get us to attack each other, while they dismantle our institutions and make off with untold wealth. I intend to do my best to not fall into that trap. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/318 "2025-02-14T17:27:26Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I wonder when the Department of Government Efficiency will turn its attention to the USPS and try shutting that one down. Since the USPS has been a target forever, I would assume it’s on the list. I come from a family of USPS workers, and the public’s misunderstanding and lack of appreciation of what they do is epic. I can only say, you’ll miss them when it’s gone and you are paying FedEx $15 to mail a letter. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/319 "2025-02-14T18:27:03Z")
I was _hoping_ that this wholesale destruction of the federal government would finally be recognized by the public as wrong and finally stopped. What would be a step too far for MAGA supporters? Veterans Affairs? DoD? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227/320 "2025-02-14T18:29:23Z")
What they have on their side at the moment is the same thing that Joe McCarthy had on his side: how easily anybody and anything can be credibly painted with a snarl word sort of label, unifying a large portion of the country _against_ so many people, organizations, and institutions. > **[House Un-American Activities Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activities_Committee)** > > The House Committee on Un-American Activities (HCUA), popularly the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), was an investigative committee of the United States House of Representatives, created in 1938 to investigate alleged disloyalty and subversive activities on the part of private citizens, public employees, and those organizations suspected of having fascist and communist ties. It became a standing (permanent) committee in 1946, and from 1969 onwards it was known as the House Committ... > **[McCarthyism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism)** > > Defunct > Newspapers > Journals When it comes to demagoguery, there really _is_ nothing new under the sun. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doge-the-department-of-government-efficiency/1010227.md?page=17)