# DOJ dropping case against Michael Flynn **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 7, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349 "2020-05-07T18:55:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/1 "2020-05-07T18:55:27Z")
[https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/flynn-brandon-van-grack-qithdrawal](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/flynn-brandon-van-grack-qithdrawal) Michael Flynn lied to the FBI, and then plead guilty to it, before withdrawing his plea. And the DOJ is dropping the case, because apparently lying to the FBI is okay (even admitting to it!) if you’re a pal of Trump. Seems crazy to me. I figured one of the paramount rules of enforcing the law was punishing those who lie to law enforcement. Apparently this DOJ disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/2 "2020-05-07T19:08:26Z")
So very banana republic. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/3 "2020-05-07T19:12:51Z")
On the same day Brandon van Grack withdrew from the case. Funny that. Barr getting his hands dirty again. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/4 "2020-05-07T19:15:39Z")
Obviously I missed the part where Flynn was granted his motion to withdraw his plea. Wow. Welcome to your new world of “justice.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/5 "2020-05-07T19:28:58Z")
The only attorney signing the order is Bill Barr, apparently: > > > Mike Scarcella @MikeScarcella Not a single line attorney. IANAL, but this seems massively unusual. Also, another resignation by a senior DOJ attorney. Hopefully they’ll speak out publicly. > > > Joshua A. Geltzer @jgeltzer ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/6 "2020-05-07T19:33:00Z")
Hooray! America is now Great Again! Now they can move on to Lock Her Up! (How much you want to bet they won’t actually try?) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/7 "2020-05-07T19:40:06Z")
I can find nothing about any hearing/ruling on Flynn’s motion to withdraw his plea. If Barr is dropping charges that are still pending before Judge Emmet Sullivan, I don’t see how that’s legal under any circumstances. Barr has no authority to undo a plea agreement of which I’m aware. (IANAL.) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/8 "2020-05-07T19:45:36Z")
B-b-b-b-b-but - he was framed by the weaponized DOJ and FBI that Obama created! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/9 "2020-05-07T19:54:00Z")
Ah. [Ok, the situation becomes clear](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-flynn/u-s-justice-department-moves-to-drop-case-against-trump-ex-adviser-flynn-idUSKBN22J317). (Reuters) DOJ has filed a motion to drop the charges. It must be heard by Judge Emmet Sullivan, along with Flynn’s motion to withdraw his plea. No date has yet been set for hearing of either motion, looks like. > [@](#): > > The U.S. Justice Department on Thursday abruptly sought to drop the criminal charges against President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn, following mounting pressure from Trump’s political allies on the right. I will be very surprised if Sullivan grants either motion. DOJ may choose to no longer pursue a sentence, but Sullivan is not in any way bound by that. Van Grack likely quit for the same reasons all four of the prosecutors withdrew from the Roger Stone case. Just can’t stomach this ongoing perversion of justice by the Barr DOJ. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/10 "2020-05-07T19:58:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [DOJ Is Dropping Case Against Flynn - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/flynn-brandon-van-grack-qithdrawal) From the article, quoting the Justice Department: “The Government is not persuaded that the January 24, 2017 interview was conducted with a legitimate investigative basis and therefore does not believe Mr. Flynn’s statements were material even if untrue,” In other words, since Trump did nothing wrong, Flynn did nothing wrong, so there was no reason to investigate him, therefore it was ok for him to like to the FBI, because the FBI are the real crooks in this story. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/11 "2020-05-07T21:07:23Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > From the article, quoting the Justice Department: > > “The Government is not persuaded that the January 24, 2017 interview was conducted with a legitimate investigative basis and therefore does not believe Mr. Flynn’s statements were material even if untrue,” > In other words, since Trump did nothing wrong, Flynn did nothing wrong, so there was no reason to investigate him, therefore it was ok for him to like to the FBI, because the FBI are the real crooks in this story. This investigation has nothing to do with Trump. This has to do with Flynn’s purported violation of the Logan Act, a crime which has never produced a conviction in its over 220 years of existence and is likely unconstitutional. The notes that were uncovered showed a bare desire to catch Flynn in something, anything and not for any real legitimate investigative purpose. That’s the real banana republic thing: Have those in power find someone they don’t like and throw things against the wall to see what sticks. I think it is the right call and I wish that all prosecutors would show the same ethical duty all the way down the line. No doubt that if this was some poor schmuck in Anywhereville, USA they would not attempt to dismiss the case. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/12 "2020-05-07T21:10:23Z")
Good thing he didn’t purportedly plead guilty to a crime, eh? The Trump administration: You think you’ve seen corrupt? Ha! Watch what we do next! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/13 "2020-05-07T21:13:27Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Good thing he didn’t purportedly plead guilty to a crime, eh? > The Trump administrationn: You think you’ve seen corrupt? Ha! Watch what we do next! You think people always plead guilty because they are guilty??? The guy spent $8.5 million on his defense, sold his house, and went broke. The government has the power to bring the house, expose you to decades of prison time, threaten to prosecute your family, and then “generously” offers to let you plead down. Again, if this wasn’t a Trump official, I suspect many of you would be outraged by this sort of government conduct. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/14 "2020-05-07T21:21:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You think people always plead guilty because they are guilty??? The guy spent $8.5 million on his defense, sold his house, and went broke. The government has the power to bring the house, expose you to decades of prison time, threaten to prosecute your family, and then “generously” offers to let you plead down. > > Again, if this wasn’t a Trump official, I suspect many of you would be outraged by this sort of government conduct. He pleaded guilty because he was quite obviously and demonstrably guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/15 "2020-05-07T21:23:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You think people always plead guilty because they are guilty??? The guy spent $8.5 million on his defense, sold his house, and went broke. The government has the power to bring the house, expose you to decades of prison time, threaten to prosecute your family, and then “generously” offers to let you plead down. > > Again, if this wasn’t a Trump official, I suspect many of you would be outraged by this sort of government conduct. LOL, too bad he pleaded to lying to the FBI. For… you know, lying to the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/16 "2020-05-07T21:26:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You think people always plead guilty because they are guilty??? The guy spent $8.5 million on his defense, sold his house, and went broke. The government has the power to bring the house, expose you to decades of prison time, threaten to prosecute your family, and then “generously” offers to let you plead down. > > Again, if this wasn’t a Trump official, I suspect many of you would be outraged by this sort of government conduct. Got it – lying to the FBI is okay, according to Trump, Bill Barr, and **UltraVires**. Some of think it should be punished, but your mileage apparently varies. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/17 "2020-05-07T23:31:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Got it – lying to the FBI is okay, according to Trump, Bill Barr, and **UltraVires**. Some of think it should be punished, but your mileage apparently varies. I’m not making it up. The law doesn’t punish lying to the FBI, it punishes a “materially false” statement regarding a matter under investigation by the FBI. The Justice Department rightfully determined that this was not an investigation by the FBI, it was a farce calculated to trap him into lying to them while creating the pretense of an underlying investigation. As I said, these dirty tricks happen all of the time, and I hope this case can be used as precedent to stop them. Investigate actual crimes, don’t find people you don’t like and try to see how you can get them to commit crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/18 "2020-05-07T23:46:18Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The Justice Department rightfully determined… I will never, ever, accept that on its own from the current justice department. They are deeply, profoundly corrupt. Not every DOJ employee, not even most, but the guys running the show are as crooked as they come and they call the shots for the rest. Maybe, possibly, in this case this is truly the right outcome and would be the right result if Hillary or Bill Clinton were the person in question. Till you can convince me that this DOJ would have let Hillary go, if she had done the same, then you’ve got something. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/19 "2020-05-07T23:52:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m not making it up. The law doesn’t punish lying to the FBI, it punishes a “materially false” statement regarding a matter under investigation by the FBI. > > The Justice Department rightfully determined that this was not an investigation by the FBI, it was a farce calculated to trap him into lying to them while creating the pretense of an underlying investigation. > > As I said, these dirty tricks happen all of the time, and I hope this case can be used as precedent to stop them. Investigate actual crimes, don’t find people you don’t like and try to see how you can get them to commit crimes. What nonsense rationalization. US Attorneys resigned because of this farce. Lying to the FBI is a crime, full stop. Even when Trump doesn’t like the investigation. You’re on Trump’s side, so any investigation he doesn’t like suddenly becomes illegitimate to you. But that’s just nonsense, and we don’t need to pretend it’s anything but nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349/20 "2020-05-07T23:59:03Z")
dup [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-dropping-case-against-michael-flynn/853349.md?page=2)