# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 102
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2024 "2024-01-03T04:21:16Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I honestly think he’s actually stupid enough to believe his own bullshit. That comes with the territory when you’re talking about a narcissist. I couple of years ago I listened to the podcast called “Dr. Death,” about a spinal surgeon who killed and maimed lots of people. He didn’t do it intentionally, he was simply a narcissist and couldn’t wrap his brain around the fact that he could have done a poor job of surgery. Listening to that, I realized it’s just like Trump - his mind cannot comprehend that he could fail. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2025 "2024-01-03T04:39:04Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > That comes with the territory when you’re talking about a narcissist. I couple of years ago I listened to the podcast called “Dr. Death,” No relation. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2026 "2024-01-03T13:08:34Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > That comes with the territory when you’re talking about a narcissist. I couple of years ago I listened to the podcast called “Dr. Death,” about a spinal surgeon who killed and maimed lots of people. He didn’t do it intentionally, he was simply a narcissist and couldn’t wrap his brain around the fact that he could have done a poor job of surgery. Sounds rather similar to a newer doc called Bad Surgeon. ETA, went to go grab a link to the show and found out this doctor is the focus of Dr Death, Season 2. > **['Dr. Death' season 2 is based on controversial surgeon Paolo Macchiarini....](https://www.businessinsider.com/bad-surgeon-paolo-macchiarini-where-is-he-now-2023-12)** > > Paolo Macchiarini, the subject of Netflix's "Bad Surgeon" and Peacock's "Dr. Death" season 2, was found guilty of causing "indefensible" bodily harm to patients. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2027 "2024-01-03T15:19:26Z")
[123023-jack-smith-immunity-brief.pdf (documentcloud.org)](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24250207/123023-jack-smith-immunity-brief.pdf) above is the brief for the immunity argument next tuesday. a really good read. sites, geo washington, and donald trump! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2028 "2024-01-04T06:29:23Z")
PSA: The .pdf is 82 pages (including front matter). In case that influences your assessment of whether you have time to start reading it. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2029 "2024-01-04T10:06:05Z")
And they have the nerve to call it a brief. Scoundrels. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2030 "2024-01-04T13:49:50Z")
an interesting bit from pages 28 and 29. team trump is going with the “he was just talking, first amendment free speech” argument. the following is team u s response to that argument. The implications of the defendant’s broad immunity theory are sobering. In his view, a court should treat a President’s criminal conduct as immune from prosecution as long as it takes the form of correspondence with a state official about a matter in which there is a federal interest, a meeting with a member of the Executive Branch, or a statement on a matter of public concern. That approach would grant immunity from criminal prosecution to a President who accepts a bribe in exchange for directing a lucrative government contract to the payer; a President who instructs the FBI Director to plant incriminating evidence USCA Case #23-3228 Document #2033810 Filed: 12/30/2023 Page 42 of 82 29 on a political enemy; a President who orders the National Guard to murder his most prominent critics; or a President who sells nuclear secrets to a foreign adversary, because in each of these scenarios, the President could assert that he was simply executing the laws; or communicating with the Department of Justice; or discharging his powers as Commander-in-Chief; or engaging in foreign diplomacy. Under the defendant’s framework, the Nation would have no recourse to deter a President from inciting his supporters during a State of the Union address to kill opposing lawmakers—thereby hamstringing any impeachment proceeding—to ensure that he remains in office unlawfully. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2031 "2024-01-04T17:28:44Z")
“Listen, we’ll deal with those crimes once he commits them. Let’s focus, people, or we’ll never get through this.” /Trump counsel ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2032 "2024-01-04T20:24:01Z")
I’d imagine Trump reading this and highlighting it for future reference with the addition of a black sharpy note of “Things to do!”, except for the fact that I can’t imagine him actually reading this. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2033 "2024-01-05T05:25:53Z")
I don’t take _Raw Story_ too seriously in their continual gleeful prediction/celebration of Trump’s demise, but could their be any remote possibility that this is true? That the SC’s refusal to grant Jack Smith’s motion to expedite might be because they don’t intend to grant cert _at all_ when the upcoming appeals court ruling that will likely deny him immunity is inevitably appealed to them? > **[‘Not so fast’: Watergate prosecutor warns Supreme Court is going to hand Trump...](https://www.rawstory.com/jack-smith-expedite-immunity/)** > > Donald Trump might be praising the Supreme Court’s refusal of special counsel Jack Smith’s plea for an expedited hearing on the former president’s immunity claim, but he might be celebrating too soon.Watergate prosecutor Nick Ackerman warned... ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2034 "2024-01-05T05:39:01Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I don’t take _Raw Story_ too seriously in their continual gleeful prediction/celebration of Trump’s demise, but could their be any remote possibility that this is true? That the SC’s refusal to grant Jack Smith’s motion to expedite might be because they don’t intend to grant cert _at all_ when the upcoming appeals court ruling that will likely deny him immunity is inevitably appealed to them? I don’t know if they’ll refuse Trump’s inevitable appeal, but I don’t believe they’re going to say the president is immune as he isn’t the God Emperor of Dune free to do whatever he wants with impunity. We’ve got a system built on checks and balances. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2035 "2024-01-05T05:41:31Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t know if they’ll refuse Trump’s inevitable appeal, but I don’t believe they’re going to say the president is immune as he isn’t the God Emperor of Dune free to do whatever he wants with impunity. I swear that Trump’s making the same argument to the SCOTUS over and over. At this point they might as well just say, “For the last time no.” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2036 "2024-01-05T05:42:46Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t believe they’re going to say the president is immune I don’t think anyone believes they will rule that way, but failure to grant the motion to expedite was seen as Trump probably succeeding in his bid to delay the DC trial past the election. If they _don’t grant cert_ then I think the trial might be back on schedule. I believe they do not usually state reasons if they deny cert? If they do want rid of Trump, maybe this move gives them more political cover than punting or ruling against him on the Colorado ballot issue? Probably just wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2037 "2024-01-05T23:10:43Z")
I actually heard a pretty intelligent argument that has recently been advanced (and which the Appellate court specifically wants addressed): > **[New question in Trump immunity appeal: Can it even be heard in court right now?](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/shows/deadlinewhitehouse/blog/rcna132053)** > > With oral argument set for Jan. 9, the D.C. Circuit could decide it doesn't have the power to decide Trump's broad immunity claim before trial. Typically, in a criminal trial, the defendant’s appeals are made _after the case is over_, presuming they are found guilty (\*Ross from Friends voice “In prison!” /\*RfFv). So, sure, donald can appeal a guilty verdict on the basis that he was immune from prosecution. But, like any other defendant, that issue isn’t _ripe_ for appeal. Like his performance with porn stars, it’s _premature_. > [@](#): > > As the American Oversight amicus brief argues, Supreme Court precedent prohibits a criminal defendant from immediately appealing an order denying immunity unless the claimed immunity is based on “an explicit statutory or constitutional guarantee that trial will not occur.” Trump’s claims of immunity rests on no such explicit guarantee. Therefore, given that Trump has not been convicted or sentenced, his appeal is premature. **The D.C. Circuit lacks appellate jurisdiction and should dismiss the appeal and return the case to district court for trial promptly.** > > Arnold & Porter partner Stanton Jones stated: “The law is clear: Mr. Trump cannot appeal his immunity defenses until after he is tried and convicted. **He should not be allowed to use an improper appeal to delay the scheduled March trial**.” (My emphasis) > **[American Oversight Files Amicus Brief in Trump Election Interference Case -...](https://www.americanoversight.org/american-oversight-files-amicus-brief-in-trump-election-interference-case)** > > American Oversight's brief argues that the D.C. Circuit lacks jurisdiction to hear former President Trump's immunity claim. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2038 "2024-01-06T07:38:00Z")
My Bet is that The Supremes rule that trump is NOT immune, but does get on the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2039 "2024-01-06T17:12:42Z")
That’s the way I’m leaning as well. Split decisions that get them out of the limelight on this issue. For now. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2040 "2024-01-06T17:19:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > My Bet is that The Supremes rule that trump is NOT immune I don’t think anyone doubts this. The issue is the delay to the trial, which is Trump’s principal motivation for this appeal. The critical question is WHEN they make this ruling. To recap: they denied Smith’s motion to expedite a ruling, so DC Circuit must rule first. Right now it’s looking pretty good for Trump. He expects to win somehow on the Colorado ballot appeal, which they are hearing soon. He expects to lose on the immunity appeal, which was really only for delaying purposes, and which is delayed to some unspecified time after DC Circuit rules. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2041 "2024-01-06T21:25:29Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I don’t think anyone doubts this. The issue is the delay to the trial, which is Trump’s principal motivation for this appeal. The critical question is WHEN they make this ruling. To recap: they denied Smith’s motion to expedite a ruling, so DC Circuit must rule first. There’s always a chance the SC refuses to hear Trump’s inevitable appeal when the DC Circuit Court rules, “LOL, no.” on presidential immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2024, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2042 "2024-01-06T21:41:35Z")
I linked to an article speculating on the possibility that may deny cert on the inevitable immunity appeal above. I’m having trouble getting past this being wishful thinking, but it’s possible. Saying essentially nothing (I don’t think they usually publish reasons for denying cert?) and putting the DC trial back on schedule seems a more politically palatable path for the SC to push back against Trump’s excesses than punting on the Colorado ballot 14A appeal. He _should_ be off the ballot everywhere, but I have to pick just one between inconsistent 14A rulings kicking him off the ballot in half a dozen states and the chaos that may ensue with the election, or a successful criminal prosecution in DC and jail time before the election - I think I’d take the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/2043 "2024-01-07T01:20:31Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > when the DC Circuit Court rules, “LOL, no.” on presidential immunity. As I cited above, the DC circuit is mulling punting on the issue until after the trial is over. That’s the customary timeline for a criminal defendant. And it puts the trial back on track for March. > **[Opinion: Harry Litman: This surprise argument could derail Trump’s effort to...](https://www.dailycamera.com/2024/01/06/opinion-harry-litman-this-surprise-argument-could-derail-trumps-effort-to-delay-the-jan-6-trial/)** > > Jurisdiction is an issue that courts take extremely seriously, and the D.C. Circuit Court should and probably will consider the argument that it lacks jurisdiction to rule on Trump’s Jan. 6 t… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=101) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=103)