# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/442 "2023-08-02T18:23:32Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > She is a well respected, fair-minded, common sense jurist with a background as a public defender. She’s as fine a judge as could be had, and both sides should be happy with her. Which of course means that she is a nasty woke racist, who is biased against Trump for being such a great American, and so will hence forth be known as Judge ChunkyKan. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > There’s no giftlink available; can’t tell if it’s paywalled or not. There was a gift link button if you scrolled down to the bottom. here you go. > **[The Trump Jan. 6 Indictment, Annotated](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/08/01/us/politics/trump-jan-6-indictment-2020-election-annotated.html?unlocked_article_code=WRmAcSOvDHhGFyfxUGKaKeCuXTQk4st-CD0XC0nSzTzGrlMa6HhmMHZsDi3zoR5-efT3kY_ory3nDEd73HgF4KtN7zCjaLMsuHMAWrwSSjdceVhQxpNbIpvjayxkN3YUln3SXqjfExbhK_tWLF4HGKrE9IHCRJ3nSRMYcYKRG5z6dvDRcQBB7tzzmAVPGELhr55zjBxqz5I_OWiIFAhxchQBQiUpYCnhkgLt-LkzAAc2lEGyjlSrx3jTEbsJDB0inmrkJbCtmswHkSQ9u0RfIpWX_KN8AS9VecSN1rAEhRJiu6h0rCbOlCjKTRbsO_MOKlYxjs1aqou1nz6CjByQa7NJUNjfSWIt7H4yQJx1l_ojvGQU0ZxvLrtkOalvY2kuHb860tJ-EsOqBoIv&smid=url-share)** > > The federal indictment unveiled on Tuesday charges former President Donald J. Trump with four crimes related to his efforts to overturn the 2020 election, culminating in the Capitol riot on Jan. 6, 2021. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/443 "2023-08-02T18:28:18Z")
Complicity. He pretty much knew and went along with everything up until he refused to fix the electoral vote. Just because you back out of a robbery dosen’t get you off the hook for knowing about it and planning it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/444 "2023-08-02T19:00:22Z")
NYT says CC6 is Boris Epshteyn, based on an e-mail he sent which is referred to in the indictment. > “But a close look at the indictment and a review of messages among people working with Mr. Trump’s team provides a strong clue. An email from December 2020 from Boris Epshteyn, a strategic adviser to the Trump campaign in 2020, to Mr. Giuliani matches a description in the indictment of an interaction between co-conspirator 6 and Mr. Giuliani, whose lawyer has confirmed that he is co-conspirator 1.” Gift link: > **[Messages Point to Identity of Co-Conspirator 6 in Trump Indictment](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/us/politics/boris-epshteyn-co-conspirator-6.html?unlocked_article_code=vyog4JjQt7dkyYhkS7LBo1OY2Wl6ORI-Aga4xI6QPuBPS-wLTLVMbCTUom12Av5wtl9qQhn53hxwokIzVva7lNR0Ko271DJSSSdtVveCl5lN9qARX0WEJUpgYVYLRKYkAKUza0lq5S792aMdZ__jQ0nZGUGKVwGrP7Bc9mSXVrSQ3pTj64HoLJl5epNyjcvt1wV6Q8oeqAMarUFR8rIj0cgX_UNgBbo469gkpeX5Ayh_aesmoBilBCJOKK0oTVadYwOokCnXboMyGTjMzC-Hc0iWxYj4cdlutKkyz9-5Mh1bN1gOtCBpsuhzbMGQ_1fhLbrQPzIO3d15sz277ItlF6eQFVngFM2qiGGyhTaW&smid=url-share)** > > An email sent by Boris Epshteyn, an adviser to the Trump campaign, matches the description of an email that the indictment attributed to one of six unnamed co-conspirators. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/445 "2023-08-02T19:03:56Z")
Oh, good catch!! I would love for it to be that asshole. ETA: Why wasn’t he designated as a lawyer, though, I wonder? He is one, although not a good one from all reports. Odd. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/446 "2023-08-02T19:28:15Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Just because you back out of a robbery dosen’t get you off the hook for knowing about it and planning it. Actually, withdrawal is a defence, even to a conspiracy charge: > [@](#): > > ## Withdrawal and Conspiracy > > Abandonment or withdrawal is also available as a defense to the crime of conspiracy, but it involves several elements unique to this crime. In order to withdraw from a conspiracy, a co-conspirator must: > > - Take an affirmative action withdrawing from the conspiracy; > - Timely communicate to all co-conspirators the withdrawal; and > - Withdraw prior to the completion of the objective of the conspiracy. > > Thus, a co-conspirator cannot withdraw by merely failing to participate further in the conspiracy. Instead, the individual must pro-actively move to withdraw and communicate this action to others involved in the conspiracy. Additionally, a withdrawal must occur before the primary goal of the conspiracy is completed. This means that a co-conspirator cannot participate in the conspiracy until its completion, withdraw, and then cite withdrawal as a defense to criminal charges. Even assuming that Pence did know all the details, seems to me the fact that he told Trump he would not participate, and then began the vote count, amounts to withdrawal. > **[The Abandonment Defense in Criminal Law Cases](https://www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/abandonment/)** > > Information on the defenses of abandonment and withdrawal, which may arise from incomplete criminal acts, and their unique application to conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/447 "2023-08-02T19:36:03Z")
i was very interested in pp24-25, para 61 (a bit biblical chapter and verse, page and paragraph). 1. To manage the plan in Pennsylvania, on December 12, coconspirator 1, 5, and 6 participated in a conference call organized by the defendant’s campaign with the defendant’s electors in that state. When the defendant’s electors expressed concern about signing certifications representing themselves as legitimate electors, cc1 falsely assured them that their certificates would be used only if the defendant succeeded in litigation. Subsequently, cc6 circulated proposed conditional language to that effect for potential inclusion in the fraudulent elector certificates. A campaign official cautioned not to offer the conditional language to the other states because " the other state are signing what he prepared- if it gets out we changed the language for PA it could snowball." in some cases the defendant’s electors refused to participate in the plan. just pa and nm used the conditional language. the conspirators were concerned that they would not be able to use the fraudulent certificates that had conditional language. they needed them to state they were the legitimate electors to get the certificates to work. the indictment is on team oxford comma! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/448 "2023-08-02T20:02:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > My candidate for CC6 is Susan Wiles. Today I learned that Susan Wiles is the daughter of former NFL player, and longtime NFL broadcaster, Pat Summerall. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/449 "2023-08-02T20:59:40Z")
Does anyone have a link where I could downloaf (I noticed the typo, but think it’s amusing, so it stays!) the indictment? Thanks in advance! ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/450 "2023-08-02T21:04:10Z")
Try here, from the DoJ site: > **[US\_v\_Trump\_23\_cr\_257.pdf](https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf)** > > 25.46 MB ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/451 "2023-08-02T21:05:47Z")
Thank you much! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/452 "2023-08-02T21:09:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Even assuming that Pence did know all the details, seems to me the fact that he told Trump he would not participate, and then began the vote count, amounts to withdrawal. There’s also the factor that Pence sought outside counsel as to the legality of this scheme, and ended up rejecting participation on the basis of the advice he received. I don’t think he ever _knowingly_ participated in _planning a crime_. People around him were telling him this scheme was legal, and he made good-faith efforts to fact check that before making a decision. I’m not saying he’s a great hero, but I don’t think he’s guilty of conspiracy. We have enough people who really are guilty to focus on for now. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/453 "2023-08-02T21:11:33Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Sounds great, but what if Thomas essentially says “fuck off” and still refuses to recuse himself? Impeachment and removal is a non-starter. Indict him, too? > > He’s clearly unbothered by how his obvious conflicts of interest make him look now, so I doubt that looking even worse will move the needle. The point isn’t to make Thomas do the right thing, it’s to generate even more examples of him behaving in a wildly corrupt fashion. SCOTUS has shown that it’s not entirely immune to public opinion. And moreover, it’s possible that shifts in public opinion may open avenues in terms of checks and balances that today don’t seem viable. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/454 "2023-08-02T21:39:36Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > SCOTUS has shown that it’s not entirely immune to public opinion. In what way that actually keeps them from making insane rulings? Because I’m not seeing the evidence on the ground. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > it’s possible that shifts in public opinion may open avenues in terms of checks and balances that today don’t seem viable. Probably not the thread for it, but I’d sincerely like to hear what avenues you think are possible. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/455 "2023-08-02T22:14:09Z")
Darn, I was convinced that No. 6 had to be Patrick McGoohan. No bother, I’ll see myself out. /s ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/456 "2023-08-02T22:16:45Z")
Who is number 1? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/457 "2023-08-02T22:52:37Z")
Ghouliani ---
**Author:** ![Tierce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Tierce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tierce)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/458 "2023-08-02T22:56:08Z")
[Whoosh.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opening_and_closing_sequences_of_The_Prisoner) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/459 "2023-08-02T23:01:02Z")
Whoosh is on first? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/460 "2023-08-03T00:18:08Z")
Well you knew this was bound to happen. > **[Imgflip](https://imgflip.com/i/7uksmg)** ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/461 "2023-08-03T00:21:36Z")
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