# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/702 "2023-08-05T15:32:07Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > A hung jury is a verdict of innocence. You said this before and were corrected. If you keep saying it, it will be corrected again. It would be nice if that weren’t necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/703 "2023-08-05T15:34:01Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > If Trump never takes the stand, then the trial will be even more boring than I originally thought, and thus very easy for Foxnews to ignore. > > They could just read a 30 second long summary of what happened that day, in a monotone, bored voice. Then blast some exciting music, and get to the real news. But Trump would _be there_, which makes it much harder for the MAGAts to ignore. They may ask _why_ he’s not testifying. I’m not expecting miracles. But I think at least enough of the right will watch enough of the trial that at least they will hear about the fake electors scheme. Also, as I say, I’m not just talking about the MAGAts but also the huge number of people who don’t take any interest in politics apart from the key events. Anyway, I’ll park it there. That’s pretty much all I wanted to say. We can disagree on the impact of televising the trial. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/704 "2023-08-05T15:42:55Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > A hung jury is a verdict of innocence No, a hung jury means that not all the jurors were agreed. The case can be retried. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/705 "2023-08-05T15:47:02Z")
I think you are all missing chappachula’s point. A hung jury is a _victory_ for Trump. A retrial might be the norm, but I’m skeptical that Smith would retry this one. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/706 "2023-08-05T15:48:28Z")
"you said this before and were corrected " Yes I know. But my point was ,and is, that the verdict which counts is not the verdict as defined by law. What counts is the verdict as determined in the court of public opinion.in other words --The court which is measured not by technical legal terms, but by the ballot box. And as others have said above, for most voters, the phrase “innocent until proven guilty” rings true. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/707 "2023-08-05T15:49:19Z")
thank you @steronz. You said it better than my whole post 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/708 "2023-08-05T15:49:58Z")
Back to topic… Judge orders Trump team to file a response by 5pm, Monday, to the protective order: > ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/709 "2023-08-05T15:51:59Z")
“Corrupt Obama judge is forcing my very patriotic and brave lawyers to work ON THE WEEKEND. Send me money!” -Trump, probably. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/710 "2023-08-05T15:57:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > “FREE REIN,” goddammit! I feel your pain, my friend, oh, yes, I do, sigh. Meanwhile, I think it would be good to see Trump finally face real, undodgeable consequences for his contempt of the rules than govern normal people. Even house arrest for contempt of court, with no online access allowed, would be something, though nowhere near as much as he deserves. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/711 "2023-08-05T16:03:20Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But if he ever does go to jail, he won’t be in the general populuation of a regular prison. He’ll be isolated. in his own area, even if the prison has to build a new gate or two at one end of the tier. I think Trump could learn to cope with prison if and only if he gets one of those Pablo Escobar-style jails that he gets to design for himself. Pablo’s included a tunnel to the outside and guards who let him use it as he saw fit. > [@steronz](#): > > A hung jury is a _victory_ for Trump. Assuming the Georgia indictment is coming soon, all Trump has to do is get this same result four times while simultaneously winning the Presidency. I am not a card player but a quick Google tells me his odds of getting four aces are… low. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/712 "2023-08-05T16:10:25Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > What counts is the verdict as determined in the court of public opinion.in other words --The court which is measured not by technical legal terms, but by the ballot box. I’m sure this never occurred to Jack Smith or his team. I think the chances of a hung jury are not nil, but they are low. Hearing a case tried in the court of public opinion is a far different thing than hearing that case tried in a court of law. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/713 "2023-08-05T16:16:00Z")
I also want to agree with @Cervaise here: The Very Premise Of This Case is all the proof you need that Trump has demagogued his way – through endless lies, straw man arguments, appeals to emotion, and incessant ludicrous bullshit – into a permanent and unquestioned position with his shockingly, appallingly, depressingly, and unimaginably credulous base. It should matter not one bit what “they will think” or what “they will do.” Whatever that number is – maybe half of Republican voters – need to be treated, for purposes of the Rule of Law, as profoundly lost and entirely irrelevant causes. TL;DR: yeah. Screw them. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/714 "2023-08-05T16:20:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > IIRC a hung jury is a mistrial. Unanimity goes both ways (guilty or not guilty). > > IANAL I assume chappachula is speaking figuratively not technically, in that a hung jury won’t result in justice and/or a prison sentence. From that POV I agree and don’t anticipate anything routinely just or appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/715 "2023-08-05T16:22:04Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think the chances of a hung jury are not nil, but they are low. Hearing a case tried in the court of public opinion is a far different thing than hearing that case tried in a court of law. I’m going to have to watch “12 angry men again.” But this would be different with the one person saying Not Guilty. The rest will have to convince the one hold out of the facts. BUT MAGAs are immune to facts. And not just immune, they deliberately ignore them. They’ve been coned by the worst con man that I have ever seen. That’s hard to admit to. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/716 "2023-08-05T16:23:32Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think the chances of a hung jury are not nil, but they are low. Hearing a case tried in the court of public opinion is a far different thing than hearing that case tried in a court of law. Yeah, this is key. 1. The jury pool will be from DC, where there are fewer QANON cultists than in, oh, let’s say, West Virginia, where Trump wants the trial moved to. 2. Smith will be looking out for cultists during jury selection. He’s very aware that they exist, and he’s not a slouch at investigation. A True Believer is likely to be outed, and ousted, during this process. 3. A Trump supporter could end up on the jury; but spending day after day listening to one of the nation’s to prosecutors provide evidence about Trump’s crime isn’t an activity most Trump supporters are accustomed to. Someone who isn’t a True Believer may well have their minds changed by this process. 4. Even if their mind isn’t completely changed, peer pressure is a huge thing. During jury deliberations, a True Believer will have to withstand tremendous pressure from other jury members if they want to maintain defiance of the evidence. 5. If, somehow, a True Believer makes it through steps 1-4, it’s highly likely they’ll also be breaking some jury rules (e.g., communicating with other True Believers in violation of the jury rules) and be expelled from the jury. 6. If somehow they make it through step 5 as well, a mistrial is the likeliest outcome, at which point, Smith can take everyone back through steps 1-5. I don’t think Chicken Little’s got an accurate weather report, and I don’t think @chappachula is correctly analyzing this situation. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/717 "2023-08-05T16:24:19Z")
Isn’t this specific trial to be set in the same venue as the J6 cases? How many times did a J6er, one who faced a jury of course, get off because of a hung jury? Or a hung jury with one person holding out despite the evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/718 "2023-08-05T16:35:13Z")
This is an excellent point. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/719 "2023-08-05T16:38:40Z")
@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness, great post. > [@JohnT](#): > > How many times did a J6er, one who faced a jury of course, get off because of a hung jury? Or a hung jury with one person holding out despite the evidence? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/720 "2023-08-05T16:39:29Z")
You can bet all social media postings by prospective jurors will be closely examined by both sides, and I suspect that anyone who’s recently deleted their presence will be viewed with extra suspicion as trying to sneak their bias onto the jury. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/721 "2023-08-05T16:58:08Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Out in the world, the Secret Service only has to guard against the possibility of an attack. In a prison the likelihood of some fool with a life sentence who wants fame trying his luck gets much higher. I know some here consider Trump a violent criminal. But judges won’t look at it that way. He would go to a well-run low security facility with other elderly and/or non-violent offenders. Also, remember that less educated men are his core constituency. I suspect he’d find most of his fellow prisoners to be Trump supporters. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=37)