# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/842 "2023-08-07T03:58:31Z")
To be fair, that’s a pretty common human behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/843 "2023-08-07T05:04:32Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Desertdog, I am constantly reminded of an article that quoted a person who told trump, that running for president was not a good idea for him. Interesting. Was it anybody we’ve heard of? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/844 "2023-08-07T05:12:14Z")
Interesting that the groups mentioned are conservative. He should absolutely keep that up. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/845 "2023-08-07T07:11:19Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > There’s another term for a technical violation of the Constitution - it’s, “Violation of the Constitution.” The Constitution is the highest law in the land. There’s another term for a technical violation of the Constitution - it’s, “Breaking the Law”. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/846 "2023-08-07T11:03:22Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > “Every single thing that President Trump is being prosecuted for involved aspirational asks - asking state legislatures, asking state governors, asking state electoral officials to do the right thing. In fact, even asking Vice President Pence was protected by free speech,” Lauro told Fox News. The police officer just ask for me to drop the gun and I just threatened him and got shot! ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/847 "2023-08-07T11:53:29Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > > > Desertdog, I am constantly reminded of an article that quoted a person who told trump, that running for president was not a good idea for him. > > Interesting. Was it anybody we’ve heard of? > [@](#): > > “That White House is a real dump.” – [Donald Trump](https://time.com/4884923/white-house-donald-trump-dump/) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/848 "2023-08-07T12:07:54Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > There’s another term for a technical violation of the Constitution - it’s, “Breaking the Law”. I’m not sure there isn’t some weird legal logic behind the “technical violation” argument. (Apologies, I did not listen to the clips.) No one has ever been convicted/incarcerated for “Violating the First Amendment.” Instead, they are convicted for violating some statute which is presumably consistent with the First Amendment as interpreted by the Courts. Just observing that this may be the sort of distinction lawyers often see which others dismiss. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/849 "2023-08-07T12:15:00Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m not sure there isn’t some weird legal logic behind the “technical violation” argument. (Apologies, I did not listen to the clips.) No one has ever been convicted/incarcerated for “Violating the First Amendment.” Instead, they are convicted for violating some statute which is presumably consistent with the First Amendment as interpreted by the Courts. Well, sure–but Trump isn’t charged with violating the Constitution. He’s charged with breaking specific laws. And violating the first amendment isn’t a thing that a private citizen can do; nor do any of Trump’s actions in the indictment consist of violating the first amendment. So the lawyer’s whole “technical violation” business is a canard. What he did was a technical violation of multiple statutes. The Constitution provides a framework for those statutes, but unless the attorney wants to challenge the whole “Congress can pass laws” structure, it’s a canard. The Constitution provides a framework for _challenging_ those statutes–e.g., by saying they violate the first amendment–but that’s also not what the attorney appears to be doing. As near as I can tell, the attorney is trying to keep the focus off the specific crimes Trump is accused of committing, instead preferring a wishy-washy pseudo-theological discussion of the constitution. It’s the wrong ground for discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/850 "2023-08-07T12:19:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So the lawyer’s whole “technical violation” business is a canard. Of course it is. But canards are (many) lawyers’ stock in trade! 😉 Much of what lawyers do inn litigation is make up arguments and hope their arguments persuade the correct persons. When you’ve got a shitty case and an obviously guilty client, the available arguments get weaker. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/851 "2023-08-07T12:23:20Z")
Agreed–I just want to make sure we don’t accept the attorney’s terms of discussion. Yes, there are constitutional questions to be raised, here and in many other cases. The order of events goes like this: 1. Someone takes an action. 2. They’re accused of a crime. 3. During the trial, constitutional issues are raised. 4. If they’re convicted, these issues are raised during the appeal. 5. Constitutional issues are clarified. The attorney’s suggestion, that constitutional ambiguity means you get out of jail free, is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/852 "2023-08-07T12:47:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It might be slightly more complicated than usual to have two different law enforcement agencies tasked with protecting the same person, but those complications are nothing that can’t be worked out. Coordinating with other agencies is a core part of the Secret Service’s job. They do it pretty much every time the President visits any place other than Washington DC, so this should be no impediment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/853 "2023-08-07T13:17:00Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > “Your honor, my client is _technically_ guilty, but does that really matter?” “Oh, that makes all the difference in the world: upon getting _technically_ found guilty, he’ll _technically_ spend the rest of his life behind bars — _technically_ wearing a prison jumpsuit, and, y’know, _technically_ making license plates — much like how, last week, we _technically_ executed a guy who‘d _technically_ committed murder.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/854 "2023-08-07T13:59:19Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > There’s another term for a technical violation of the Constitution - it’s, “Violation of the Constitution.” Actually, I’ve seen that argument made by posters on these very boards, when someone is upset that an unpopular accused person is acquitted because the police infringed the accused’s constitutional rights. The comment is frequently framed as « He just got off on a technicality. ». The technicality bring a breach of the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/855 "2023-08-07T14:43:49Z")
the person was not named. and for some reason… is no longer a member of trump’s golf clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/856 "2023-08-07T14:45:04Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > “Your honor, my client is _technically_ guilty, but does that really matter?” > > “That’s the only kind of guilty that matters.” **Judge Snyder:** Hutz, we’ve been in here for four hours. Do you have any evidence at all? **Lionel Hutz:** Well, Your Honor, we’ve got plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/857 "2023-08-07T14:52:37Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Railer13](#): > > > > Is the vote margin made made available to the judge and attorneys? IANAL, but I thought this was not revealed, at least in the courtroom > > Typically the poll the jurors individually. > > Criminal Rule 31 > > > (d) **Jury Poll**. After a verdict is returned but before the jury is discharged, the court must on a party’s request, or may on its own, poll the jurors individually. If the poll reveals a lack of unanimity, the court may direct the jury to deliberate further or may declare a mistrial and discharge the jury. That particular rule doesn’t apply when no verdict is returned, for example, when there’s a hung jury. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/858 "2023-08-07T14:58:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “Aspirational coup” is the MAGA version of “Hope and Change.” Fox and Friends tried out this new defense this morning. It went something like this: “When President Trump mentioned to the Georgia Secretary of State that he needed 11,000 votes, he wasn’t asking him to find them, it was just aspirational. That’s a new word - we’re going to be hearing a lot about that.” Fucking _1984_-type bullshit. Just go ahead and tell them that if Trump behaved like a mob boss, that’s perfectly acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/859 "2023-08-07T15:21:21Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > “When President Trump mentioned to the Georgia Secretary of State that he needed 11,000 votes, he wasn’t asking him to find them, it was just aspirational. That’s a new word - we’re going to be hearing a lot about that.” Of course you also have to pretend that he didn’t threaten him legally if he didn’t comply. Is it only aspirational if I say to someone that it would be really nice if they gave me their wallet, because otherwise I’d shoot them with the gun I’m pointing at them? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/860 "2023-08-07T15:46:47Z")
Didn’t Trump actually use the word “find”? I don’t have time to read the transcript now. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/861 "2023-08-07T16:04:40Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Didn’t Trump actually use the word “find”? Yes. > And you are going to find that they are — which is totally illegal, it is more illegal for you than it is for them because, you know what they did and you’re not reporting it. That’s a criminal, that’s a criminal offense. And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a big risk. But they are shredding ballots, in my opinion, based on what I’ve heard. And they are removing machinery and they’re moving it as fast as they can, both of which are criminal finds. And you can’t let it happen and you are letting it happen. You know, I mean, I’m notifying you that you’re letting it happen. So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. That’s a direct transcript. > [@Mr.Duality](#): > > I don’t have time to read the transcript now. Luckily for you, I had time (and really just needed to skim it). > **[Read the full transcript and listen to Trump's audio call with Georgia...](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html)** > > CNN has obtained the full January 2 audio call between President Donald Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. Trump is joined on the call by White House chief of staff Mark Meadows and several lawyers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=44)