# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/882 "2023-08-07T20:09:39Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > You left out the retrial, which would almost certainly follow a mistrial due to a hung jury. What’s the timeline for a re-trial? would it last beyond election day in November.? If so, Trump will be able to pardon himself. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/883 "2023-08-07T20:09:48Z")
@chappachula - I think you’re misreading the thread, but admittedly it’s a matter of interpretation. I believe that most of us, in light of the evidence shared to date and expert opinion, think “this is it” in terms of a lawsuit that is subject to the least weakness in terms of intent and actions. We feel that this should be clear matters of established law, and he should be ( UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES ) quickly held accountable to the law. Most of us are equally worried that the court of public opinion and Trump’s fanatical followers DO NOT CARE about points of law, and that the odds of one of them being on the jury and causing a mistrial because they don’t care. And at that point, especially if Trump is re-elected, we fundamentally see any chance of restoring Democratic norms to the nation as gone for good. So no, I don’t think anyone is celebrating prematurely, we’re hoping with all our might that we might see a way to step back from the brink, as getting Biden in office only delayed everything at best - Trump and his ilk are 100% doubling, tripling down on autocratic single party rule agendas. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/884 "2023-08-07T20:12:58Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > If so, Trump will be able to pardon himself. It’s amazing that you have the insight that the POTUS can pardon himself, something that has never been done before and lesser constitutional scholars than yourself are unsure of. Not to mention, the minor point being quibbled isn’t even central to this case. This is mostly about the false electors. The phone call is a Georgia state issue for what is expected to be another indictment in the very near future. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/885 "2023-08-07T20:16:14Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > > [@Procrustus](#): > > > > You left out the retrial, which would almost certainly follow a mistrial due to a hung jury. > > What’s the timeline for a re-trial? would it last beyond election day in November.? > If so, Trump will be able to pardon himself. I’ve seen judges say “we’ll start the retrial next Monday.” I can’t predict what would happen in GA or DC, but it doesn’t have to be a long delay. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/886 "2023-08-07T20:16:30Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s amazing that you have the insight that the POTUS can pardon himself, something that has never been done before and lesser constitutional scholars than yourself are unsure of Obviously it’s never been done before, and the scholars are unsure if it’s legal. But you’re assuming that the rule of law and democratic norms are going to be followed. Trump and his 75 million voters aren’t worried about silly things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/887 "2023-08-07T20:17:10Z")
I’ve worked on retrials that started the very next day. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/888 "2023-08-07T20:18:52Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But you’re assuming that the rule of law and democratic norms are going to be followed. > > Trump and his 75 million voters aren’t worried about silly things like that. Then what are you even talking about? Why would a pardon even matter? By your logic, he doesn’t even need to bother with such things. If the law doesn’t matter, neither do legal maneuvers. He and his omnipotent army can accomplish anything, and none of us has a chance of stopping him. I mean, that’s MAGA logic, I don’t really subscribe to such things. Reality is good enough for me, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/889 "2023-08-07T20:25:33Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Why would a pardon even matter? By your logic, he doesn’t even need to bother with such things. If the law doesn’t matter, neither do legal maneuvers the pardon won’t matter to Trump (and half the country). They already know he is omnipotent. But the pardon would be a problem for the rest of us, who think that the law still does matter, and legal maneuvers have to be obeyed. It will take a year or so, but the Supreme Court will eventually rule that a president does have the power to pardon himself. So we will be stuck with admitting that, yes, Trump really is omnipotent. and there’s nothing we can do about it. Them’s the rules… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/890 "2023-08-07T20:27:52Z")
I know this is a rhetorical question, but do you have a cite for any of this? This is sounding either like a defeatist paranoid fantasy, or some MAGA wish fulfillment. Trump is not omnipotent, unless you misspelled impotent. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/891 "2023-08-07T20:28:53Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > It will take a year or so, but the Supreme Court will eventually rule that a president does have the power to pardon himself. Since you’re apparently from the future, could you tell me what stocks will be best to invest in for 2024? Edit: I agree with Atamasama. This sounds like Fan Fiction. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/892 "2023-08-07T20:31:38Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > It will take a year or so, but the Supreme Court will eventually rule that a president does have the power to pardon himself. No matter how much various of Supreme jurists love or even worship Trump I just do not see any SCOTUS granting the Executive (all future holders of the office) that much power in excess over any other branch including their own. A future president could, if that be so, literally murder judges they want gone, appoint new ones, and pardon themself. True an extreme hypothetical but it sets the balance to that level. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/893 "2023-08-07T20:31:39Z")
of course he isn’t omnipotent…I’m using hyperbole. But I am terrified that he will be re-elected, and will pardon himself, and will be supported by the Supreme Court. As you say, it’s MAGA wish fulfillment, Fan Fiction, etc But it’s also a realistic possibility. And that’s what scares me. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/894 "2023-08-07T20:31:40Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s amazing that you have the insight that the POTUS can pardon himself, something that has never been done before and lesser constitutional scholars than yourself are unsure of. If Trump wins the presidency, it’s a pretty good bet the Republicans will take complete control of Congress as well. They already have a majority on the Supreme Court. It’s a certainty that Trump _will_ issue himself a pardon, and who in power at that point would tell him he can’t do that? If the pardon isn’t challenged, it stands. Sure, maybe 30 years from now someone in power might decide that, in retrospect, it wasn’t legal, but if no one ever holds him to account for that, what difference would that make? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/895 "2023-08-07T20:33:15Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > If Trump wins the presidency, it’s a pretty good bet the Republicans will take complete control of Congress as well. That is likely, which is why it would take some kind of monumental change between now and election time for any of this to even be possible. The Republicans are not on the upswing of the pendulum. If all of this is counting on another hypothetical red wave… I’m glad that I’m not in that alternate reality. Also, he’d need to beat the charges in Georgia. I wouldn’t count on that, he couldn’t even win the election there. He can’t pardon that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/896 "2023-08-07T20:35:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > If all of this is counting on another hypothetical red wave… I’m glad that I’m not in that alternate reality. In a normal universe, a red wave at this point would be a ridiculous impossibility. But ten years ago, we would have said the same thing about a US president refusing to concede a lost election, and taking criminal actions to try to overturn the election. There are no safe bets in any of this crap. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/897 "2023-08-07T20:38:07Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > There are no safe bets in any of this crap. Sure, but there are degrees of probability. Trump is not at all omnipotent. He lost despite efforts to steal the election last time. The candidates who supported him lost in a massive fashion in the midterms. He is losing over and over again in court. I don’t think that it’s reasonable to not only assume that will all change suddenly, but to declare with 100% certainty that it **will** happen, which is what I was arguing against. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/898 "2023-08-07T20:49:11Z")
> [@vbob](#): > > Well, it’s Monday, but D.C. is shutting down due to extreme thunderstorm and tornado warnings Not really shutting down, just moving everything possible to telework … as long as the power stays on. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/899 "2023-08-07T21:56:09Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Is anybody watching Fox and its ilk for any reaction from them, or their commentators; or Trump, or Trump supporters? Has Trump truthed anything since the indictment dropped? Given that the LSNN (“Look! Squirrel” News Network) has a proclivity to weasel more towards the Hunter side of things than, well, you know, slighly more topical headline stuff, I’d say it would behoove the more “regular” news networks to start segments revolving around a _“Maga Juror Watch!”_ sort of theme, heading into Aug. 28. As proceedings get under way, pundit folk can speculate into any possible aberrations, anomolies, tips, leaks, or crazy online discoveries involving any of the 12. It’s possible some stealth MAGAt might play it close to the vest until his or her surprise not guilty vote, rending my whole concept moot, but, _just the very act_ of trumpeting an awareness of this aspect of the case would undoubtedly make a concerning impression among swing voters, especially if there indeed turns out to be a MAGAt juror among them. > [@chappachula](#): > > But I am terrified that he will be re-elected, and will pardon himself, and will be supported by the Supreme Court. > As you say, it’s MAGA wish fulfillment, Fan Fiction, etc > > But it’s also a realistic possibility. And that’s what scares me. Meh, I’ll give loads more credence to the post immediately preceeding yours: > [@DSeid](#): > > No matter how much various of Supreme jurists love or even worship Trump I just do not see any SCOTUS granting the Executive (all future holders of the office) that much power in excess over any other branch including their own. Alito, Thomas - sure, will grant, but the other 3 conservative justices - bothersome poopyheads they may be - nah, they’re not a lock, at all, to grant such heinous bullshoi. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/900 "2023-08-07T22:04:03Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > It’s possible some stealth MAGAt might play it close to the vest until his or her surprise not guilty vote, rending my whole concept moot, but, _just the very act_ of trumpeting an awareness of this aspect of the case would undoubtedly make a concerning impression among swing voters, especially if there indeed turns out to be a MAGAt juror among them. For a big case like this, the lawyers will typically do research on the jury pool before jury selection. The people in the selection pool will probably get a questionnaire beforehand. The lawyers will likely do internet and background searches on the prospective jurors. By the time they are in the room doing jury selection, the lawyers will likely know a lot about each person. For a MAGA true believer to successfully hide their beliefs, they’d have to somehow have it not show up in the preliminary research done on them before jury selection. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/901 "2023-08-07T22:06:28Z")
I’m simply creating an extreme scenario of a MAGAt fooling _voir dire_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=46)