# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/922 "2023-08-08T00:17:46Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Odesio](#): > > > > They want to undermine any confidence the people have in our justice system as a whole. > > As lawyers, what do they hope to get out of doing this? Fame? Money from MAGAts? (they better not hope on $$ from Trump). I’d expect that few lawyers have the goal of fucking up the justice system. I don’t know. If I’m not mistaken, 5 of the 6 co-conspirators are or were lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/923 "2023-08-08T00:28:01Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I don’t know. If I’m not mistaken, 5 of the 6 co-conspirators are or were lawyers. Well, I think _those_ lawyers were hoping to be in the inside circle of the newly crowned Trumpopia land. I think they literally were banking on Trump winning and rewarding them handsomely for their loyalty by awarding them a dukedom, land, castles and some serfs to lord it over. The current crop of lawyers though? The most they will get is stiffed on their bill and possibly tossed from the bar. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/924 "2023-08-08T00:31:10Z")
Defendant’s lawyer submitted their argument just barely before 5 pm, prosecutors reply within 3 hours. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/925 "2023-08-08T01:39:56Z")
The judge has issued a hearing on or before aug 11 th on the discovery question. Just reported on msnbc. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/926 "2023-08-08T01:40:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > As lawyers, what do they hope to get out of doing this? A win. Juries are unpredictable. Federal juries? Not so much in general, but when a politician is the defendant, yes, juries are unpredictable. If a lawyer has a need to frequently win, they shouldn’t be taking federal criminal cases, period. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/927 "2023-08-08T01:51:09Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The most they will get is stiffed on their bill and possibly tossed from the bar. I question that. First of all, most of them are probably are getting a high six, or low seven, figure retainer. And if their billable hours go above that, they are in much better shape to squeeze the rest out of Trump than one of those plumbers he stiffs. And as for being tossed from the bar, it’s a risk, but hardly a probability. Consider: > **[Trump and his new lawyer are not on the same page about judge’s recusal](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/07/trump-lawyer-judge-recusal-00110103)** > > The former president's public statements are already diverging from the advice of his newest lawyer, John Lauro. These criminal lawyers are used to shady arrogant clients. They probably consider it a challenge, and pride themselves on rising to it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/928 "2023-08-08T01:54:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “WE WILL BE IMMEDIATELY ASKING FOR RECUSAL OF THIS JUDGE ON VERY POWERFUL GROUNDS,” the president wrote on Truth Social, “AND LIKEWISE FOR VENUE CHANGE” Lionel Hutz: Uh-oh, we’ve drawn Judge Snyder. Marge: Is that bad? Hutz: Well, he’s had it in for me ever since I kinda ran over his dog. Marge: You did? Hutz: Well, replace the word “kinda” with “repeatedly” and “dog” with “son”. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/929 "2023-08-08T02:37:18Z")
I found something rather amusing in the defense council’s response, at the bottom of page 9. > **[viewer](https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https:%2F%2Fs3.documentcloud.org%2Fdocuments%2F23901780%2Ftrumporder.pdf)** One of the things they object to is that the definition on authorized persons is limited to “persons employed by the defendant”. The object to that because of the likely possibility that Trump will utilize what they call “volunteer attorneys’, defined as lawyers he has asked to help him but that he has no intention of paying. I’m not sure if that’s an announcement of his intention to stiff his attorneys, or if it means he intends to show everything the government sends to every crackpot MAGAt with a law degree, so they can publicly mischaracterize the evidence they are presented with. I suspect it’s a little of both. And someone needs to tell Trump’s lawyers that the Dark Brandon meme has been around for a long time and wasn’t created in response to the indictment like they claim. They should also make clear that it’s not inappropriate for Biden to publicly say that he wants to win the 2024 election, because they seem to suggest otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/930 "2023-08-08T03:50:39Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > (Pretty sure I’d be excused for cause if I tried to say I could set aside my prejudices. And rightly so.) Especially if the juror form asks you for your social media postings and the handle you go by on the SDMB. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/931 "2023-08-08T05:27:50Z")
Apparently, Donald’s response to the protective order is a demand that he be allowed to use evidence provided in discovery in his campaign ads. > **[Trump wants freedom to use Jack Smith's evidence in campaign trail speeches:...](https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-2662918526/)** > > Donald Trump is planning to use special counsel Jack Smith's evidence in election interference case against him as a tool to win the 2024 election, the former president's legal team suggested in a filing Monday.The filing was in response to special... ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/932 "2023-08-08T05:42:04Z")
What worries me is that the pubbies would probably still vote for him even after seeing all the evidence against him. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/933 "2023-08-08T06:07:19Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Especially if the juror form asks you for your social media postings and the handle you go by on the SDMB. 😉 Serious question: How mich does a person in the jury pool have to divulge? And how easy is it to hide your social media comments from the court? All of us here at the Dope use anonymous handles. And all of us are careful to not reveal our real life names, because we don’t want to get fired from our jobs, or embarrass ourselves,or hurt the feelings of somebody. There must be millions of similar folks out there in MAGA land. People who believe in the cult of Trump, but are smart enough not to blast it on Facebook under their real names. For example, there is a forum on reddit called “conservative”. ([Reddit - Dive into anything](http://reddit.com/r/conservative). )They carry out a little bit of reasonable discussiion, with a whole lot of MAGA nonsense . But it is all, like us Dopers, under anonymous usernames. It would be easy for a conservative member there to appear in the jury pool as unbiased, with no social media presence ,but in reality he could be a full blown fanatic. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/934 "2023-08-08T13:56:17Z")
[Former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik met Monday with investigators from special counsel Jack Smith’s team.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/bernie-kerik-meets-special-counsel-investigators-2020-probe-rcna98643) They’re still collecting information? I guess it’s such a deep, maze-y rabbit hole that there’s always something new to learn. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/935 "2023-08-08T14:24:48Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > [If the offense charged is punishable by imprisonment for more than one year, the government is entitled to 6 peremptory challenges and the defendant or defendants jointly to 10 peremptory challenges.](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-1999-title18a-node36-node75-rule24&num=0&edition=1999#:~:text=If%20the%20offense%20charged%20is%20punishable%20by%20imprisonment%20for%20more,jointly%20to%2010%20peremptory%20challenges) Ah, I stand corrected. The ratio of non-MAGAs to MAGAs is still going to be a lot higher than 10:6, though, in DC. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/936 "2023-08-08T14:50:16Z")
There has not been a single hung jury due to a MAGA juror in any J6 trial. Why is there any reason to think one will slip through the cracks for the most important trial of all? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/937 "2023-08-08T14:51:34Z")
Thank you!! Such a well made point. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/938 "2023-08-08T14:58:34Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Why is there any reason to think one will slip through the cracks for the most important trial of all? Bevause plenty of Americans feel personal loyalty towards Trump the man and MAGA the movement. Many (most?) of the j6 defendants turned on Trump/MAGA to one degree or another once they were staring down inevitable jail time. A die-hard Trump supporter would, I think, be more likely to send a traitor to the cause to jail. I’m not too worried about it - I think Smith and his team will be thorough and careful. But I think the concern stands up to logic. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/939 "2023-08-08T14:59:48Z")
Because MAGAs have blind devotion to their dear leader Trump that they don’t have to other MAGAs. MAGAs don’t care a whole lot if another MAGA goes to jail over J6. But if Trump is prosecuted, it will impede him becoming president and ushering a return to the golden age of America. If a MAGA causes a hung trial by spending the whole deliberation period writing “Not Guilty” on the voting paper, he’ll be a hero to the MAGAs. He’ll never have to buy a drink again in his life. He’ll probably get his own suite at Mar-a-Lago and play golf with Trump as much as he likes. I think of it as similar to how Christians feel about other Christians versus how they feel about Jesus. Trump is like Jesus to the MAGAs. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/940 "2023-08-08T15:05:30Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Because MAGAs have blind devotion to their dear leader Trump that they don’t have to other MAGAs. But you think that one so blindly devoted will be able to withstand the voir dire process, which is designed to ferret out exactly these sorts of people? I don’t. I’ll allow I can envision a freak circumstance where such a one might find their way on to a jury. But even hard bitten idealogues can and have been persuaded by overwhelming evidence, together with a judge’s stern instructions to follow the evidence and law in the case before them. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/941 "2023-08-08T15:17:43Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@steronz](#): > > > > A retrial might be the norm, but I’m skeptical that Smith would retry this one. > > It often depends on whether it’s 11-1 or 1-11. I imagine as soon as a mistrial is declared the judge will ask the attorneys if they’ll be ready to start the retrial in two weeks. > [@Railer13](#): > > Is the vote margin made made available to the judge and attorneys? IANAL, but I thought this was not revealed, at least in the courtroom. I’ve been out of pocket for a couple of days, but I should have reworded this question to: If the trial results in a hung jury, is the vote margin made available to the judge and attorneys? The answer to this question, based on succeeding posts, appears to be ‘No’. So the prosecuting attorney does not have that information in her/his determination of whether or not to ask for a retrial. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=48)