# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1162 "2023-08-14T17:16:27Z")
I’ve been pondering the extent to which all of the players in this game were true believers, which were wilfully blind, and which were just opportunists, and the chance that they’ll flip and provide evidence against trump. Sidney Powell I cast as a true believer. Hugo Chavez, Italian satellites, Chinese thermostats and the whole caboodle. She’s pretty universally acknowledged as a loony crackpot even among the ruby red Right. She’ll go to her grave believing she was right and would never turn on trump. Rudy is not quite as far along the true believer spectrum, but close to true believer with a hearty dash of willfully blind. He doesn’t want to hear anything that contradicts his view of the election, but i really think at the heart of it he’s just doubling down because he believes that he’s already sunk so much energy into it that to back down now would be embarrassing. Might possibly offer some small concessions or evidence to keep himself out of jail if offered that deal, but wouldn’t really change his mind. John Eastman, true believer that his interpretation of the Constitutional role of the Vice President was worth running up the flagpole to see who salutes, but realistic enough to say that it would probably get thrown out of court. Opportunistic in that he believed the stunt was worth the risk anyway. He thinks he merely provided a legal theory and will probably defend his right to do so. I doubt he’ll have much to add to the prosecution’s knowledge, but won’t have any problem trumpeting what he said, why he said it, and what reception he received. Jeffrey Clark, opportunist all the way. Maybe a molecule of true believer. He wanted to be head of the DOJ and his attempted election stunts were all in service of that end. Chances of flipping, 50/50. I think his opportunistic streak will lead him to think there could be rewards in the future for standing his ground now. Kenneth Chesebro, total opportunist. He was employed by the campaign and planned to do whatever it took to help his guy stay in the White House. Supposedly a ringleader in the fake electors scheme. Will totally flip on anyone and everyone. And trump himself? A misbegotten sludge of the worst of all three. A true believer who was wilfully blind, opportunistc, and dismissive of the chance of failure or repercussions. Oppotunistic is his middle name and his mantra. Who knows what his damaged mind and narcissistic ego will do? I mean, blame everyone else, of course, bleat that he was 100% perfect and right, certainly. But take a plea of it will keep him out of jail? I just don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1163 "2023-08-14T17:18:28Z")
As I posted in the Fulton County thread, looks like Trump is legitimately getting RICO’d in Georgia… > **[U.S. state of Georgia appears set to file charges against Donald Trump -court...](https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-state-georgia-appears-set-file-charges-against-donald-trump-court-document-2023-08-14/)** > > The U.S. state of Georgia appears set to charge Donald Trump with a variety of charges, including racketeering, conspiracy and false statements, according to a two-page docket report posted to the Fulton County court's website. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1164 "2023-08-14T17:40:53Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Rudy is not quite as far along the true believer spectrum, but close to true believer with a hearty dash of willfully blind. He doesn’t want to hear anything that contradicts his view of the election, but i really think at the heart of it he’s just doubling down because he believes that he’s already sunk so much energy into it that to back down now would be embarrassing. I somewhat disagree about Rudy. I think he, as is becoming clear in the Pit thread “Way more than you wanted to know about Rudy…” is a man with expensive tastes, expensive debts, and was needing a strong and/or wealthy supporter. He was an early Trump adopter, and jumped on the wagon. Sadly, he didn’t get as much as he expected (as does anyone who expects much from Trump) and felt he had to go in double or nothing in 2020. I don’t see any element of True Believer, but a whole lot of your willfully blind and a ton of desperation. I do think you’re 100% correct in that he’s unlikely to offer to flip on anything of value, because both the embarrassment and the fact that as a Trump supporter he has a chance to grift a tiny bit, while his many Many legal issues outside the federal investigations leave him screwed no matter what. So he’ll cling to the microscopic hope that Trump and/or the (R) will bail him out or intervene than flip. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1165 "2023-08-14T17:44:10Z")
Moderating: … and would best be posted in the thread dedicated to the Georgia case: > [@What happens if Trump is indicted in Georgia? (Indicted on August 14, 2023)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia/979928): > > All I’ve been able to find so far is: For the hearing, he might be brought to the Fulton County courthouse via cooperation between the Georgia State Patrol and Florida Highway Patrol. Probably no frog-marching though. But (more likely), he could waive his appearance at the hearing, and his lawyers would appear on his behalf. The prosecution could ask for a very high bail, and the judge might confiscate his passport, but apparently the flight risk is very low, due to his high visibility. … Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1166 "2023-08-14T18:02:40Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I don’t see any element of True Believer, but a whole lot of your willfully blind and a ton of desperation. And with Rudy, I think it’s likely to be a dash of [Alcohol Related Dementia.](https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/types-dementia/alcohol-related-dementia#:~:text=Alcohol%2Drelated%20'dementia'%20is,much%20alcohol%20over%20many%20years.) ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1167 "2023-08-14T18:18:11Z")
You are both very wise. I’m rethinking my assessment with this additional input and insight. Rudy is an exceptional case. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1168 "2023-08-14T20:56:30Z")
Legal Eagle put out a video on the indictment, very entertaining. Devin paints the co-conspirators as if they were variations of the Sinister Six that teamed up to fight Spider-Man. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/j4-Si_OtmZs/maxresdefault.jpg "How Trump (Allegedly) Tried to Steal the Election") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4-Si_OtmZs) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1169 "2023-08-15T20:28:29Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, _ **or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States** _, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability Based on this, Trump’s trial will be a particularly political one. What I mean by that is that a guilty verdict removes him as a candidate in the 2024 election. Given the reality of that, seems to me that the venue should be moved. The vote in DC in 2020 was: Biden: 317,323, Trump: 18,586. Assuming a similar allegiance today, for every 1 potential Trump voter there are 17 potential Biden voters. So, if they started with a jury pool of, say 36, there would likely be only 2 Trump voters in the pool. And that’s before jury selection. So, if a juror hates Trump, he/she knows that a guilty verdict takes him out of the race. Seems that out of our respect for everyone getting a fair trial, it should be moved to a place where the jury pool would be more balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1170 "2023-08-15T20:30:24Z")
And where would that be? ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1171 "2023-08-15T20:34:40Z")
He doesn’t have to be convicted of anything–he needs to be held legally accountable for the insurrection (as far as I can tell). That would involve lawsuits, not trials so far. We have much handwringing about a MAGAT getting through voir dire and the legal eagles seem to think it’s manageable. And, by the way “everyone” includes us non-Trump voting citizens as well… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1172 "2023-08-15T20:37:40Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > And where would that be? West Virginia? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1173 "2023-08-15T20:50:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Seems that out of our respect for everyone getting a fair trial, it should be moved to a place where the jury pool would be more balanced. It’s not going to be fair in ANY case. Or any place. We all saw what he has done. We have video, phone records and transcripts. He has confessed about his ‘perfect’ phone call/s. MAGAs will of course ignore the evidence and facts which is what they have been doing for YEARS. MAGAs have too much of their very soul vested in this idiot. They where conned. They will never ever admit they where wrong. It’s embarrassing to get conned by a complete and total fool. MAGAs also look up to and admire this cheat. They want to be just like him. Trump has gotten away with his slimy scams for years because he found a pool of people that are stupider than he is. Put the asshole in prison, and let the chips fall where they may. It has to be said that the USA will not put up with this. Not just for our country, but our standing in the world. Trump already turned us into a laughing stock. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1174 "2023-08-15T20:52:30Z")
Other than a trial, how else could he be legally accountable for Jan 6? On another note, this… > “…shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same…” …explains why the Jan. 6 Committee and so many on the left are infatuated with characterizing it as an attempted “insurrection”. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1175 "2023-08-15T20:53:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, if a juror hates Trump, he/she knows that a guilty verdict takes him out of the race. I’m sorry, but this just sounds like a repeat of Trump’s pathetic whinging about how some people don’t like him. Nothing really new in this argument. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1176 "2023-08-15T20:56:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > …explains why the Jan. 6 Committee and so many on the left are infatuated with characterizing it as an attempted “insurrection”. You’re ignoring – as Trump supporters are wont to do – that virtually all the damning testimony offered to the January 6th Committee was from _Trump supporters_. People who worked in his administration. People who followed him right up to the edge of the cliff but would not go over it with him. That probably had something to do with it. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m sorry, but this just sounds like a repeat of Trump’s pathetic whinging about how some people don’t like him. Nothing really new in this argument. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1177 "2023-08-15T20:59:26Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > It’s not going to be fair in ANY case. Or any place. I don’t agree, but hope about simply fairER? DC is pro-Biden/anti-Trump in the extreme. How about a place where the vote was more evenly split? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1178 "2023-08-15T21:01:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about a place where the vote was more evenly split? Not how it works. The law strongly favors that a defendant be tried in the jurisdiction where the crime(s) occurred. Interesting that you’re not raising a similar concern about Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1179 "2023-08-15T21:02:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about a place where the vote was more evenly split? That is not in any way a justification for moving a trial. It’s not being moved out of DC for the same reason that the documents trial isn’t being moved out of Florida. I don’t recall any case where a trial of a politician was moved based on how people voted for a person in the previous election, and there is no reason to create something unprecedented just for Trump. That’s a ridiculous suggestion with absolutely zero justification for it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1180 "2023-08-15T21:08:11Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Interesting that you’re not raising a similar concern about Florida. Good point. Georgia is about 50/50. I cautiously expect a slam dunk there. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1181 "2023-08-15T21:10:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > seems to me that the venue should be moved Nope. > …a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of _the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed_… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=60)