# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1222 "2023-08-17T16:29:30Z")
In addition to threatening to kill the DC Judge, the article also mentions her threatening local Congresswoman Sheila Lee Jackson of Houston, TX. She said she didn’t plan to go to Houston, but “if Sheila Jackson Lee comes to Alvin (TX), then we need to worry…”. Alvin is very close to Houston, 20-30 miles away from downtown, like a suburb. The NTY doesn’t state which crime she was charged with, but here’s what [Wiki shows (Threatening government officials of the United States):](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_government_officials_of_the_United_States#:~:text=Threatening%20other%20officials%20is%20a,the%20Federal%20Bureau%20of%20Investigation.) > There are three elements of the offense of making an illegal threat: (i) there must be a transmission in interstate commerce; (ii) there must be a communication containing the threat; (iii) and the threat must be a threat to injure the person of another. > … > In determining what constitutes a [true threat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat), the courts hold that what must be proved is that a reasonable recipient of the communication would consider it a threat under the circumstances. Thus, **a statement to a judge that “You and your family are going to die” would be regarded as a true threat** , even if the defendant claimed that he meant it as a biological fact of life that everyone will die. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1223 "2023-08-17T16:43:50Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > What is the standard, i wonder See the wiki article on _Brandenburg v Ohio_ for a discussion of threats and the 1st Amendment. > **[Brandenburg v. Ohio](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio)** > > Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), is a landmark decision of the United States Supreme Court interpreting the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action".: 702  Specifically, the Court struck down Ohio's criminal syndicalism statute, because that statute broadly prohibited the mere advoca Claren... ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1224 "2023-08-17T23:39:17Z")
April 2026. That’s when Trump’s attorneys want the trial to start. > ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1225 "2023-08-17T23:45:11Z")
Golly they love to call him president, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1226 "2023-08-18T00:47:24Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Golly they love to call him president, don’t they That’s the first thing I thought when I read the above Response. I guess the title of ‘President’ stays with a person for life? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1227 "2023-08-18T00:54:44Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I guess the title of ‘President’ stays with a person for life? According to Emily Post, it doesn’t. > **[Addressing a Former President of the United States](https://emilypost.com/advice/addressing-a-former-president-of-the-united-states)** > > When addressing a former President of the United States in a formal setting, the correct form is “Mr. LastName.” (“President LastName” or “Mr. President” are terms reserved for the current head of state.) This is true for other ex-officials, as well. Miss Manners agrees. > **[ADDRESSING A FORMER PRESIDENT](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1992/10/21/addressing-a-former-president/74852958-5995-4068-9f91-a6851bb893a5/)** It is still not uncommon to see a former POTUS be given the “President” title, but that’s not correct according to tradition. It’s common enough be not be egregious, but it’s still technically wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1228 "2023-08-18T00:56:36Z")
Well, then, his attorneys should be admonished to remove the title, dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1229 "2023-08-18T00:56:42Z")
I always thought it was “Former President,” as in Former President Obama or Former President Clinton. Of course, he’s probably told them to call him “President Trump” in all court filings. He thinks that it will just better sell the fact that he was really elected and that the election was stolen from him. If he thinks a court will buy that, he’s really grasping at straws. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1230 "2023-08-18T00:57:54Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I always thought it was “Former President,” as in Former President Obama or Former President Clinton. When talking about a former president, that is common. When addressing a former president, it’s usually “Mr. Lastname” (or I’m sure Mrs./Ms./Miss eventually). In the published response above, “Former President Donald J. Trump” would have been perfectly appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1231 "2023-08-18T00:59:22Z")
Not according to the judges either. He is mr trump in court. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1232 "2023-08-18T01:02:30Z")
It is my understanding that should you die in office you keep the title. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1233 "2023-08-18T01:22:14Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Hard to see it meeting the 1st Amendment standard of imminent risk to a judge in DC.) I feel like you’re closer to articulating the standard for “incitement” (one category of unprotected speech) when in fact “true threats” doctrine (another category of unprotected speech) seems more appropriate. I believe @CoolHandCox is closer to the correct standard. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1234 "2023-08-18T01:24:54Z")
I’m only a Canadian.🇨🇦 I defer to more knowledgeable American posters 🇺🇸 on these sorts of details. US 1st Amendment law can be quite complex when you drill down. 😊 ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1235 "2023-08-18T01:29:10Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Not according to the judges either. He is mr trump in court Apparently he gets really irate every time he’s addressed as Mister. Several people observing the DC arraignment commented on it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1236 "2023-08-18T01:33:04Z")
I enjoyed watching that. Wait till the trial. I suspect there will be a motion in limine that Trump be referred to as “Mr. Trump” for the duration of the trial and not “President Trump.” I’ll bet that motion will be granted, too. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1237 "2023-08-18T02:13:44Z")
Former presidents are frequently addressed as “Mr. President.” No rule about it, it’s a frequently observed courtesy. Case in point, CNN interviewed Obama a month ago, and he was called ‘Mr President’. Free speech is protected. You don’t have to call him Mr President if you don’t want to. Nothing to stop you addressing him as ‘you bastard’. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/V03ZTv5XhA8/maxresdefault.jpg "Obama on Trump indictment: 'Nobody is above the law'") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V03ZTv5XhA8) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1238 "2023-08-18T03:36:25Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Former presidents are frequently addressed as “Mr. President.” No rule about it, it’s a frequently observed courtesy. Case in point, CNN interviewed Obama a month ago, and he was called ‘Mr President’. The media gets it wrong all the time. They’re probably the worst offenders. That’s why I said it’s not egregious to use the title for a former president. It happens often enough. But it’s incorrect to do so. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Free speech is protected. You don’t have to call him Mr President if you don’t want to. Absolutely. That’s why I referred to what is traditional and what is proper etiquette. There is nothing in law in regards to it. Early on, as the Constitution was being written, and later during Washington’s presidency, there was a discussion about what the proper terms and usage should be, and suggestions to put it in law. But they declined to do so, partially because of a desire to protect free speech (as you allude to) and partially because they had just broken away from England, and didn’t want to continue the legacy of putting into law how you had to address people. It was too much like nobility. (There was even talk about the POTUS being called “Your Highness”, no surprise that was abandoned.) ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1239 "2023-08-18T04:29:37Z")
Although I wouldn’t want the judge to engage in such things, it would be cool if everytime the defense addresses him as mr. President, the prosecutor addresses him as mr. Ex-president. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1240 "2023-08-18T05:03:13Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > April 2026. That’s when Trump’s attorneys want the trial to start. Loser Donald is probably assuming he’s going to “make a deal” with Judge Chutkan and get her to set the trial in the middle of the two. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2023, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1241 "2023-08-18T07:17:04Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Well, then, his attorneys should be admonished to remove the title, dammit. “Break him. Make him a private. I have no serious objection to a honorary Private Trump.” [_Inherit the Wind_ clip.](https://youtu.be/_1Owxa11SDE) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=63)