# DOJ/Jack Smith Investigation into Trump and Election Interference, January 6th Insurrection (Re-Indicted August 27, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 23, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455 "2022-11-23T20:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 86
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1702 "2023-10-20T11:41:10Z")
What can Smith do with the fact that Trump doesn’t text or email? He needs witnesses to testify about his state of mind, which is frustrating, but is he allowed to state outright or only to imply that there is an obvious malign motive for someone to avoid systematically creating a written record of his thinking¿? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1703 "2023-10-20T18:39:25Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > > [@Aspenglow](#): > > > > I think it does. > > > > She may be nuts, but she’s not so nuts that she’s not aware that the first one to flip gets the best deal. > > The first rat gets all the cheese! I thought the phrase was “The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse get’s the cheese.” ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1704 "2023-10-20T18:46:53Z")
I think I heard the phrase, or something similar, on an episode of Law and Order. _Rat_ is the key word, the implication being that the first person to flip on their co-conspirators is valuable because of the information they possess, and later co-conspirators, who have the same inside info - might not get any deal at all unless they can come up with additional information that is new and unique. And I hate explaining jokes, but apparently it’s a necessity at times. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1705 "2023-10-20T18:49:46Z")
Ahh, sorry. I didn’t watch much L&O. But obviously, “rat” is the operative word! ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1706 "2023-10-24T15:09:47Z")
Trump’s lawyers contend (as I believe they have before) that the election interference case should be tossed because he was acquitted by the Senate (double jeopardy). Their arguments are, as I understand them: 1. It’s interfering with his First Amendment rights. 2. The case doesn’t say how he did the thing he’s charged with doing. 3. It’s retaliatory because he’s running again. Also, Jan 6th shouldn’t be mentioned, because no one in the Justice Department has said he was responsible for it. I feel like these ideas have been suggested before by his legal team, and they don’t seem to have anything new. > **[Trump lawyers argue Senate impeachment acquittal means 2020 election...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-lawyers-argue-senate-impeachment-acquittal-means-2020-election-i-rcna121882)** > > In motions filed before midnight, lawyers for Trump invoked the First Amendment in arguing the judge should toss out the special counsel's case. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1707 "2023-10-24T15:13:48Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Trump’s lawyers contend (as I believe they have before) that the election interference case should be tossed because he was acquitted by the Senate (double jeopardy). That part of their argument is so frivolous I wouldn’t be surprised if they get sanctioned. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1708 "2023-10-24T15:15:19Z")
Again, right? Or was it a different legal team? I can’t keep the desperate flailing straight. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1709 "2023-10-24T15:15:55Z")
Heck, in another case, they’re suggesting that “absolute presidential immunity was a protection that cannot be surrendered by Trump or any other president.” Why not throw it into this legal stew as well at some point? ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1710 "2023-10-24T15:27:02Z")
Cheseboro, Powell, and now Ellis have all plead guilty in the Georgia case. As conditions of their plea deal all three I believe will have to testify truthfully to what happened. I have to believe Jack Smith is laser focused right now on what testimony these unindicted co-conspirators might have to contribute to the Federal case. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1711 "2023-10-24T15:55:46Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Trump’s lawyers contend (as I believe they have before) that the election interference case should be tossed because he was acquitted by the Senate (double jeopardy). Does anyone want to do the research and check if any of these same lawyers said “DOJ policy prohibits indicting a sitting president; it will have to wait until he’s out of office”? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1712 "2023-10-24T18:18:54Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I can’t keep the desperate flailing straight. It helps if you can step-frame it. I’ve tried keeping spreadsheets but it got too complicated. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1713 "2023-10-24T18:47:37Z")
Trump’s Motions to Dismiss the charges against him, broken down here: [![](https://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Screenshot-2023-10-24-at-12.22.57.png) ](https://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Screenshot-2023-10-24-at-12.22.57.png) Here’s [the analysis of the different motions](https://www.emptywheel.net/2023/10/24/trumps-motions-to-dismiss-things-that-arent-the-charges-against-him/). Summary, some are pretty weak, some are ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1714 "2023-10-24T21:01:44Z")
Oh, looks like Smith has been busy: > **[Ex-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows granted immunity, tells special counsel he...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/chief-staff-mark-meadows-granted-immunity-tells-special/story?id=104231281)** > > Ex-Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has spoken with Jack Smith's team several times this year, and Smith granted Meadows immunity to testify under oath, sources say. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1715 "2023-10-24T21:04:08Z")
Well that’s good news. As long as he can actually muster the “honestly” part of testifying! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1716 "2023-10-24T21:17:13Z")
I think it’s important to remember that this grant of immunity is contingent on Meadows testifying in a fulsome and complete manner. Else he can still find himself in the clink for a long, long time. Meadows was always the key to prevailing in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1717 "2023-10-24T21:23:49Z")
Oh, wow. That’s huge. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1718 "2023-10-24T21:25:30Z")
It also strikes me that the knowledge base of sworn testimony is getting rather prodigious. This – to the detriment of some of these Defendants and Witnesses – just makes it incrementally harder every day to withhold, distort, or outright lie. I was always hoping for both Meadows _and_ Giuliani to flip. I still like my odds. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1719 "2023-10-24T21:26:40Z")
Trump should be getting very afraid. Even if the Georgia case isn’t heard before the election, Powell, Chesebro, Ellis and now Meadows look like powerful witnesses that Smith can call in the federal trial in March. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1720 "2023-10-24T21:39:38Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I was always hoping for both Meadows _and_ Giuliani to flip. I still like my odds. I do, too. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455/1721 "2023-10-24T21:42:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Powell, Chesebro, Ellis and now Meadows look like powerful witnesses that Smith can call in the federal trial in March Does their promise to testify extend beyond the boundaries of the Georgia case? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=85) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-jack-smith-investigation-into-trump-and-election-interference-january-6th-insurrection-re-indicted-august-27-2024/975455.md?page=87)