# DOJ may indict Zimmerman on civil-rights charges **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509 "2013-07-14T22:06:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/21 "2013-07-15T03:36:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It somewhat surprised me, though, that a civil-rights case could be made, even hypothetically, against a private citizen 😕 It would not be the first time, nor the last. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/22 "2013-07-15T04:38:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It was a case where there was a racially motivated set of killings, a white local jury acquitted the defendants, so the Feds filed a civil-rights charge. I don’t think they’ve resorted to that in decades, but they did it several times in the 1960s. Hence, “takes you back.” And don’t try to tell me “racially motivated” does not apply here. It was a case where three civil rights workers were murdered by the fucking Ku Klux Klan while attempting to register black voters in Mississippi. In the Zimmerman case, there is zero evidence that Martin was doing any sort of civil rights work, zero evidence that Zimmerman wanted to stop or interfere with the civil rights work Martin wasn’t doing, and zero evidence that the Ku Klux Klan was involved. Absolutely nothing whatsoever remotely similar to the Zimmerman case. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/23 "2013-07-15T04:54:00Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Absolutely nothing whatsoever remotely similar to the Zimmerman case. Bah. That line should end with “the Mississippi Burning case”. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/24 "2013-07-15T05:12:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [_Washington Post_ reports:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/justice-dept-says-it-will-consider-whether-to-file-civil-rights-charges-in-zimmerman-case/2013/07/14/ad73c76c-ecc0-11e2-b46e-f15eec37b46c_story.html) > > Boy, does that take you back! Like, to [_Mississippi Burning._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Burning) > > Is this a good or bad idea, do you think? I didn’t realize that Trayvon Martin was Jewish. I take back all my comments about the case. He definitely deserved to die. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/25 "2013-07-15T05:27:36Z")
Um… Yeah, that’s logical. The government overreaches, and, because of that, Trayvon Martin deserves to die. **Ibn Warraq** : haven’t you, yourself, been in the forefront of arguing against assigning guilt on an irrelevant basis? If someone says something stupid about all Muslims, because some very few Muslims commit crimes, you are one of the readiest to point out how unjust that is. But now, you engage in it yourself, in one of the most odious ways possible? Nasty… ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/26 "2013-07-15T05:41:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Um… Yeah, that’s logical. The government overreaches, and, because of that, Trayvon Martin deserves to die. > > **Ibn Warraq** : haven’t you, yourself, been in the forefront of arguing against assigning guilt on an irrelevant basis? If someone says something stupid about all Muslims, because some very few Muslims commit crimes, you are one of the readiest to point out how unjust that is. But now, you engage in it yourself, in one of the most odious ways possible? > > Nasty… Are you referring to the above post? If so, that was meant as a joke. Apologies to any who thought otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/27 "2013-07-15T06:02:51Z")
OOOPs. I apologize also. I thought it was real. I should have known better, and, again, I’m sorry. (It is notoriously difficult to know a joke from a serious post, and, worse, I may be somewhat humor impaired.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/28 "2013-07-15T11:19:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Civil Rights Act made it a crime to prevent a citizen from exercising his civil rights by threat of force, even by private citizens (Congress can legislate broadly in such matters under the 14th Amendment.) Any prosecution would have to tie the killing with a protected activity (like voting or using a public facility) which seems unlikely. Huh. I stand enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/29 "2013-07-15T14:07:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Huh. I stand enlightened. As the one poster linked 18 USC 249; Given the requirements here, the criminal charge, if filed, will be fatal to the govt., no chance for a conviction, period. (b) Certification Requirement.— (1) In general.— No prosecution of any offense described in this subsection may be undertaken by the United States, except under the certification in writing of the Attorney General, or a designee, that— (A)the State does not have jurisdiction; (B)the State has requested that the Federal Government assume jurisdiction; (C)the verdict or sentence obtained pursuant to State charges left demonstratively unvindicated the Federal interest in eradicating bias-motivated violence; or (D)a prosecution by the United States is in the public interest and necessary to secure substantial justice. > **[18 U.S. Code § 249 - Hate crime acts](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249)** ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/30 "2013-07-15T16:31:43Z")
I posted [this](http://kdvr.com/2013/07/14/in-echo-of-o-j-simpson-case-zimmerman-could-still-be-held-accountable-for-death/) in a [duplicate thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696560) that was closed and from this as well as the rest of the article, it sounds like race was a factor in Zimmerman’s actions and that could certainly be considered in a civil rights actions - by definition. > [@](#): > > The NAACP is pushing the U.S. Department of Justice to file a civil rights suit. > > They accuse Zimmerman of racial profiling that led to Martin’s death — an allegation that Zimmerman, his family and his supporters have denied. > “The most fundamental of civil rights — the right to life — was violated the night George Zimmerman stalked and then took the life of Trayvon Martin,” the group said. > > NAACP President Benjamin Jealous told CNN’s “State of the Union” on Sunday that remarks made by Zimmerman and people who live in his Sanford, Florida, neighborhood had sparked the group’s concern. > > “When you look at (Zimmerman’s) comments, and when you look at comments made by young black men who lived in that neighborhood about how they felt especially targeted by him, there is reason to be concerned that race was a factor in why he targeted young Trayvon,” Jealous said. > > The NAACP leader’s allegations drew sharp criticism Sunday from Robert Zimmerman Jr., who argued that FBI interviews have already shown that his brother isn’t racist. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/31 "2013-07-15T16:42:44Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It was a case where three civil rights workers were murdered by the fucking Ku Klux Klan while attempting to register black voters in Mississippi. > > In the Zimmerman case, there is zero evidence that Martin was doing any sort of civil rights work, zero evidence that Zimmerman wanted to stop or interfere with the civil rights work Martin wasn’t doing, and zero evidence that the Ku Klux Klan was involved. Absolutely nothing whatsoever remotely similar to the Zimmerman case. But the (possible) response by the Feds is the same and the racial motivation is definitely there, and I can’t be the only one who thought of _MB_ on hearing the news. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/32 "2013-07-15T17:12:56Z")
Like I said in the General Questions thread (before it got locked), the prosectuors are grasping at straws. Presumably, it is not a hate crime to kill someone who is trying to harm you. The prosecutors couldn’t prove that Zimmerman wasn’t defending himself. (If they could, he would have been convicted of at least manslaughter.) Why would federal prosecutors be able to do any better a job? Oh yeah, and they’re also reporting that the FBI has already looked into this, and determined that racism wasn’t involved. I agree with the idea that this is mainly the professional racists trying to keep the pot stirred, because that’s how they stay relevant these days. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/33 "2013-07-15T17:17:44Z")
This is the craziest thing I have heard in a long time. “Professional racists” is about right Diceman. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/34 "2013-07-15T17:30:31Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I agree with the idea that this is mainly the professional racists trying to keep the pot stirred, because that’s how they stay relevant these days. “professional racists”? You mean like George Zimmerman? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/35 "2013-07-15T17:46:56Z")
I think he means Al Sharpton. George Zimmerman is an unprofessional racist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/36 "2013-07-15T17:49:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think he means Al Sharpton. George Zimmerman is an unprofessional racist. Now that the trial is over I assume he’ll turn pro. > [@control-z](#): > > This is the craziest thing I have heard in a long time. Is it really crazier than “guy shoots unarmed teenager and doesn’t get arrested until the shooting becomes the subject of nationwide protests?” ---
**Author:** ![aux203](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/77aa72/32.png) [@aux203](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aux203)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/37 "2013-07-15T18:14:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Is it really crazier than “guy shoots unarmed teenager and doesn’t get arrested until the shooting becomes the subject of nationwide protests?” It was my understanding that: a) The law specifically prohibited his arrest and b) The police did not feel there was anywhere near enough evidence to charge and convict him anyway. It turns out they were 100% right about that. I’d been following this case only tangentially until recently but based on the facts presented, I’m more concerned this case went to trial at all. The prosecution’s case was very, very weak. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/38 "2013-07-15T18:17:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Is it really crazier than “guy shoots unarmed teenager and doesn’t get arrested until the shooting becomes the subject of nationwide protests?” If you’re looking for crazy, how about: “In the subsequent trial, the prosecution’s case is so woefully inadequate as to fully justify those who argued that the arrest never had legal merit, and was simply done out of political expediency.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/39 "2013-07-15T18:21:06Z")
It wasn’t woefully inadequate (though clearly it wasn’t strong.) A very weak case would have been dismissed at the conclusion of the state’s case, the state having failed to make a _prima facie_ showing of guilt. People have been convicted (generally of lesser crimes) on much less evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509/40 "2013-07-15T18:24:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But the (possible) response by the Feds is the same and the racial motivation is definitely there, and I can’t be the only one who thought of _MB_ on hearing the news. No, the potential federal response is not the same. I invite you to research the matter and come back to tell us why you’re wrong. Racial motivation is not definitely there. At least one former federal prosecutor says it does not exist. [Cite.](http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/politics/zimmerman-federal-charges/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) \*Because Zimmerman is a private citizen, he can only be charged with a hate crime in terms of civil rights violations under federal law, said David Weinstein, a former federal prosecutor in Florida who now is in private practice. To successfully prosecute Zimmerman, the Department of Justice would have to show that Zimmerman “caused the death of Trayvon Martin solely motivated by/because of his race or color,” Weinstein told CNN in an e-mail, adding: “This element was absent from the state trial and quite frankly doesn’t exist.”\* And, from the same article linked above, Obama is already in CYA mode on this one… - Separately, the White House said President Barack Obama would play no role in deciding whether federal charges are filed. Obama spokesman Jay Carney said “cases are brought on the merits and the merits are evaluated by the professionals at the Department of Justice.”\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-may-indict-zimmerman-on-civil-rights-charges/663509.md?page=3)