# DOJ report on racism and shakedown-artistry in the Ferguson PD **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604 "2015-03-09T15:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/201 "2015-03-12T17:46:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Are you fucking kidding me? The looters, rioters, and any dickhead who supports them and gives them any type of protection. Clear enough for you? So a tiny, tiny minority (a few dozen, maybe?) of the black residents in Ferguson, then? How about any racially biased cops? Do they have to stay, or do they leave too? > [@](#): > > Let the law respecting citizens leave and let the animals enjoy the world more to their liking. So basically, let everyone but a tiny number of assholes leave so the assholes can be assholes. Where would they go that would be free of assholes? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/202 "2015-03-12T17:51:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You have enough money, you can just move if you feel like it? You think everybody does? If you don’t have “money to move”, you probably don’t have much to move. My advice: if you find yourself living in a sewer, leave. YMMV. And good for you. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/203 "2015-03-12T17:59:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Cite? Here’s a smattering: [This study of the LAPD found that](http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayers/Ayres%20LAPD%20Report.pdf)… > [@](#): > > Per 10,000 residents, the black stop rate is 3,400 stops higher than the white stop rate, and the Hispanic stop rate is almost 360 stops higher. > > Relative to stopped whites, stopped blacks are 127% more likely and stopped Hispanics are 43% more likely to be frisked. > > Frisked African Americans are 42.3% less likely to be found with a weapon than frisked whites and that frisked Hispanics are 31.8% less likely to have a weapon than frisked non-Hispanic whites. Consensual searches of blacks are 37.0% less likely to uncover weapons, 23.7% less likely to uncover drugs and 25.4% less likely to uncover anything else. Meanwhile, in Ferguson: > [@](#): > > Even setting aside the question of whether there are racial disparities in FPD’s traffic stop practices, however, the data collected during those stops reliably shows statistically significant racial disparities in the outcomes people receive after being stopped. Unlike with vehicle stops, assessing the disparate impact of post-stop outcomes—such as the rate at which stops result in citations, searches, or arrests—is not dependent on population data or on assumptions about differential offending rates by race; instead, the enforcement actions imposed against stopped black drivers are compared directly to the enforcement actions imposed against stopped white drivers. > In Ferguson, traffic stops of black drivers are more likely to lead to searches, citations, and arrests than are stops of white drivers. Black people are significantly more likely to be searched during a traffic stop than white people. From October 2012 to October 2014, 11% of stopped black drivers were searched, whereas only 5% of stopped white drivers were searched. > > Despite being searched at higher rates, African Americans are 26% less likely to have contraband found on them than whites: 24% of searches of African Americans resulted in a contraband finding, whereas 30% of searches of whites resulted in a contraband finding. This disparity exists even after controlling for the type of search conducted, whether a search incident to arrest, a consent search, or a search predicated on reasonable suspicion. The lower rate at which officers find contraband when searching African Americans indicates either that officers’ suspicion of criminal wrongdoing is less likely to be accurate when interacting with African Americans or that officers are more likely to search African Americans without any suspicion of criminal wrongdoing. Either explanation suggests bias, whether explicit or implicit.40 This lower hit rate for African Americans also underscores that this disparate enforcement practice is ineffective. > > … > > With respect to speeding offenses for all roads, African Americans account for 72% of citations based on radar or laser, but 80% of citations based on other or unspecified methods. Thus, as evaluated by radar, African Americans violate the law at lower rates than as evaluated by FPD officers. > > … > > FPD records show that once a warrant issues, racial disparities in FPD’s warrant execution practices make it exceedingly more likely for a black individual with an outstanding warrant to be arrested than a white individual with an outstanding warrant. > > … > > Notably, the evidence suggests that African Americans are not only disparately impacted by court procedures, but also by the court’s discretionary rulings in individual cases. Although court data did not enable a comprehensive assessment of disparities in fines that the court imposes, we did review fine data regarding ten different offenses and offense categories, including the five highly discretionary offenses disproportionately brought against African Americans noted above.46 That analysis suggests that there may be racial disparities in the court’s fine assessment practices. And so forth. The evidence that police treat black people far worse than white people is staggering, and the notion that the cause is black people acting aggressively toward the police wouldn’t explain the facts cited above. The police acting more aggressively toward black people would. > [@magellan01](#): > > Are you fucking kidding me? The looters, rioters, and any dickhead who supports them and gives them any type of protection. Clear enough for you? > > Let the law-respecting citizens leave and let the animals enjoy the world more to their liking. The police in Ferguson aren’t law-respecting citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/204 "2015-03-12T18:00:34Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Good on you for saying “animals” instead of “niggers”. That’s quite enough. Warning issued. Regardless of what you may personally think of another poster such insults are not tolerated. And everyone else just cool the heck down. From this point on I expect nothing but civility and respect toward other posters in this thread. You want to lambast someone? The Pit is a few short clicks away. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/205 "2015-03-12T18:12:03Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I’ve seen evidence of some racism, yes, but I don’t know if this shows that it’s the cops that are racist. Who else? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/206 "2015-03-12T18:33:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Who else? Of course, there’s Racist #1: Eric Holder. And there are all those who insisted that the cop who shot Michael Brown did something wrong because, you know, he had to shoot a dumb kid on his way to becoming a thug, who happened to be black. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/207 "2015-03-12T18:38:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Of course, there’s Racist #1: Eric Holder. Bullshit. Or, I disagree respectfully and would like to see you back up this assertion. Do you dismiss all of the findings of the DOJ report about Ferguson, or just some of them? > [@](#): > > And there are all those who insisted that the cop who shot Michael Brown did something wrong because, you know, he had to shoot a dumb kid on his way to becoming a thug, who happened to be black. Also disagree (is this some sort of weird “black people are the real racists” thing?). Would you also include any cops who act with racial bias? Or are there none of those in Ferguson (or elsewhere)? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/208 "2015-03-12T18:38:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Of course, there’s Racist #1: Eric Holder. :rolleyes: Please do not post again in this thread until you have written 100 times: “Anti-racist is not a code word for anti-white.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/209 "2015-03-12T18:43:52Z")
Racism is still a major negative force in many parts of America, and many parts of America are still far from equal in opportunity to achieve and succeed in our society. I understand that many disagree, but why is it so damn important to so many that this statement _must necessarily be false_, even to the point of denying clear evidence like that in the DOJ Ferguson report? What is so scary about admitting that racism still exists, and it’s still responsible for a lot of bad things, even though things have improved a lot? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/210 "2015-03-12T18:47:19Z")
Because if you do accept that it is true, you are then obliged to get off your ass and do something about it, something uncomfortable like changing your own attitudes and behavior. It’s both easier and more self-gratifying instead to pretend that you aren’t part of the problem, it’s all the fault of them damn n-people. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/211 "2015-03-12T18:48:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > a dumb kid on his way to becoming a thug Interesting phrase there. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/212 "2015-03-12T18:55:06Z")
I’ll provide some anecdotes from my time in the Navy that, I think, might partially answer my question (in a weird sort of way): there were a handful of guys on the submarine that were quite clearly white supremacists. They didn’t express any personal hatred their black shipmates, and would routinely socialize and joke around with them onboard, but when only white crewmembers were present, they would occasionally make racist jokes, inject racist statements into political and other conversations (“you don’t really think they’re just as smart as we are, do you?” or “I’ll bang a black girl, but I’ll never marry one – that’s just wrong!” or “I swear, his shadow looked just like a gorilla!”) and the like. One of these guys risked his life to save the life of a black shipmate (in an industrial/machinery type of situation, not combat). He acted heroically. These men – my shipmates – were not evil people. They would have risked their lives to save me and even our black shipmates. But they truly and deeply held racist beliefs, _which don’t require hatred_. I strongly suspect a significant (but not necessarily majority) portion of police officers, of all races, hold such opinions – some small but significant fraction of cops around the country believe, whether consciously or unconsciously, that black people (or maybe just young black men) are more dangerous and less deserving of respectful and dignified treatment than others. Why would anyone be surprised by this? 100 years ago, it was probably 90+% of cops who felt this way. 50 years ago, it was probably still very high. Why would it be zero, or a very low number, now? And why is it so damn hard for some to admit that this still might be the case? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/213 "2015-03-12T19:01:09Z")
:o > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: Please do not post again in this thread until you have written 100 times: “Anti-racist is not a code word for anti-white.” Good, and may I just say that anyone who arbitrarily states “I have not read the report and do not intend to” probably shouldn’t post in a thread titled “DOJ report on racism and shakedown-artistry in the Ferguson PD”. I mean the thread is all about the report! The balls on some people! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/214 "2015-03-12T19:09:38Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > :o > > Good, and may I just say that anyone who arbitrarily states “I have not read the report and do not intend to” probably shouldn’t post in a thread titled “DOJ report on racism and shakedown-artistry in the Ferguson PD”. > > I mean the thread is all about the report! The balls on some people! Out of curiousity, does this apply to people who agree with everything in the report, or only to those who are quibbling with it? Follow-up question: what percentage of the posters in this thread do you think have read the entire report? Further follow-up: have you personally read the entire report? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/215 "2015-03-12T19:11:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Out of curiousity, does this apply to people who agree with everything in the report, or only to those who are quibbling with it? > > Follow-up question: what percentage of the posters in this thread do you think have read the entire report? Further follow-up: have you personally read the entire report? No. But a) I did read the highlights b) I am not in here quibbling about it c)it applies to everyone. I will amend my statement to read that everyone should at _least_ read the highlights ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/216 "2015-03-12T19:13:04Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > No. But > > a) I did read the highlights > b) I am not in here quibbling about it > c)it applies to everyone. I will amend my statement to read that everyone should at _least_ read the highlights Hahahahahahahahahahaha, Then we’re all good, then. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/217 "2015-03-12T19:15:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hahahahahahahahahahaha, > > Then we’re all good, then. Care to back up your claim about Eric Holder? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/218 "2015-03-12T19:19:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll provide some anecdotes from my time in the Navy that, I think, might partially answer my question (in a weird sort of way): there were a handful of guys on the submarine that were quite clearly white supremacists. They didn’t express any personal hatred their black shipmates, and would routinely socialize and joke around with them onboard, but when only white crewmembers were present, they would occasionally make racist jokes, inject racist statements into political and other conversations (“you don’t really think they’re just as smart as we are, do you?” or “I’ll bang a black girl, but I’ll never marry one – that’s just wrong!” or “I swear, his shadow looked just like a gorilla!”) and the like. This is a bit of a tangent in terms of your post, but not in terms of the report, so I’ll mention it anyway. I’m not sure I agree that anyone who makes or recycles a racist joke is a bigot. Sometimes things are just funny, and stereotypes can be funny to a person who knows they exist and are part of the culture, even if that person doesn’t necessarily hold the considered opinion that these are valid reflections of reality. To consider another example, do you think people who make or relay “Polish” jokes necessarily believe that Polish people are actually stupid? What’s weird about it is that many respectible and successful comedians (mostly black but also white, e.g. Howard Stern) routinely make jokes which trade on ethnic/racial stereotypes, and it’s apparently understood and accepted that the audience will find these funny and entertaining. [All that said, someone who makes such jokes in the presence of people who might be offended (or if it’s likely to come to their attention) is being insensitive. That’s another issue.] > [@Anaamika](#): > > No. But > > a) I did read the highlights > b) I am not in here quibbling about it > c)it applies to everyone. I will amend my statement to read that everyone should at _least_ read the highlights Can you clarify why there would be a difference between someone who is quibbling with it and someone who is defending it? Why would one be more valid than the other? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/219 "2015-03-12T19:22:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Care to back up your claim about Eric Holder? Oh, please. Just look at how he handled the whole Ferguson thing. And the report. It was a conclusion with a narrative added to it. [Here’s more, not that it will matter to you.](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=eric+holder+is+a+racist&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) He’s Al Sharpton with a law degree and better temperament and suits. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/220 "2015-03-12T19:23:05Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Here’s a smattering:…The police in Ferguson aren’t law-respecting citizens. I was kidding. The “cite” asked for is the subject of the thread. _Tres duh, mais non?_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604.md?page=12)