# DOJ report on racism and shakedown-artistry in the Ferguson PD **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604 "2015-03-09T15:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/241 "2015-03-13T04:55:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Oh, please, yourself. Yo are really citing Limbaugh who is making up his own story just to get the dittoheads to chant “Yeah!”? > > His whole _all the cops in the country do it_ regarding traffic fines ignores the documented evidence that the police and courts, while going after black drivers, had a habit of giving out warnings instead of tickets to white drivers and the courts quashing the tickets that were handed out to white drivers. > > It does matter to me that Limbaugh promotes the hatred he does. I matters more to me when his lies are submitted as “evidence” in a debate. Feel fee to ignore all Rush Limbaugh links. But thanks for the chuckle for trying to insinuate that he, specifically, was what I was linking to. Good one! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/242 "2015-03-13T04:58:21Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > …Maybe we’re missing some other cause. Of course! Testosterone! Males have bunches of it, that’s why we’re stupid and violent! Or at least why we scratch, belch, and don’t listen. And that’s why males get arrested more, testosterone! And black males get arrested more than white males because they have more of it, as evidenced by their…ah…anatomical peculiarities. Now there’s an overlooked cause, right there, you don’t here anybody talking about _that!_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/243 "2015-03-13T12:12:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Feel fee to ignore all Rush Limbaugh links. But thanks for the chuckle for trying to insinuate that he, specifically, was what I was linking to. Good one! So which links do we not ignore? Why not just provide them? Why, specifically, do you assert that Holder is a racist? ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/244 "2015-03-13T12:38:17Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Monstro was eminently reasonable. I just happen to disagree, or at least question the premise. > > I’ve already given one reason to question it: one one expect that cities that would probably be less racist would have better arrest records; they don’t. This could be countered by an example of a city with a good arrest record but so far none have been found. That doesn’t _prove_ anything but it is, for now, a data point. > > Another is this: the arrest rate for males is much higher than females. Does anybody rationally suggest that cops are the reason for the discrepancy, even to a small degree? Why, then, is the arrest rate for black males definite proof of racist cops? > > I’d just like to see better evidence. Maybe we’re missing some other cause. So not being able to point out a city with a more even arrest record is a data point, but the multiple data points in the report showing racism aren’t? The report shows not just disparities in arrests when adjusted for crime rates, for example possession of contraband, but it also shows disparities in the rate of citations, disparities in the use of force, disparities in the use of canines against suspects, and disparities in the charge of resisting arrest, just to name a few. (As an example, we all know resisting arrest is a very subjective charge that police seem to be given a lot of discretion to use. From October 2012 to October 2014, every single charge of resisting arrest was against a black person.) Additionally, it seems like all the statistics that can be adjusted to be more statistically valid have been so adjusted by statisticians to keep the DoJ from jumping to conclusions based on invalid comparisons. On top of that, it also shows many problems with the courts and police using arrestees as ATMs, compounding the racism of the system. Even without the racism, the problems with extorting citizens rather than trying to serve the public good should be enough to seriously punish or even break up this police force. In fact, the Missouri Supreme Court has already stepped in and assigned a judge from the state appeals court to take over current and future municipal cases in Ferguson, showing that they are taking this very seriously. All of these can’t be explained away by saying, “Show me a city that has a good arrest record.” I’m certain you could find cities that weren’t nearly as bad given the number of points above but that would still have rates indicating unlawful targeting of black people. However, the DoJ hasn’t looked in depth at most cities (as far as I know) so there would likely not be nearly as detailed information. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/245 "2015-03-13T12:55:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Where did they get their data? According to them, the Las Vegas Metro PD arrests 886.9 black people per 1000. I find it hard to believe that 90% of the black population is being arrested in Las Vegas. I have a hunch that they wrongly assumed the police department was a city department and used the demographics for just the city of Las Vegas, not the whole county minus Henderson and North Las Vegas. Either that or _lots_ of tourists get arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/246 "2015-03-13T14:35:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Feel fee to ignore all Rush Limbaugh links. But thanks for the chuckle for trying to insinuate that he, specifically, was what I was linking to. Good one! Nobody is insinuating that you linked specifically to anything with that World’s Laziest Cite. You just typed “Holder is a racist” into google and pasted the url of that search into your post. People are trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and all you can do is chuckle. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/247 "2015-03-13T15:10:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nobody is insinuating that you linked specifically to anything with that World’s Laziest Cite. You just typed “Holder is a racist” into google and pasted the url of that search into your post. People are trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and all you can do is chuckle. Post 234. Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/248 "2015-03-13T15:20:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Post 234. > > Yawn. So what is your cite? Why do you think Holder is a racist? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/249 "2015-03-13T15:21:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why, specifically, do you assert that Holder is a racist? Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/250 "2015-03-13T16:06:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Post 234. > > Yawn. Yes, indeed, that is the post in which you were granted the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/251 "2015-03-13T16:19:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Post 234. > > Yawn. Your weak-ass paper belt Google Fu made me yawn, too. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/252 "2015-03-13T16:24:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So what is your cite? Why do you think Holder is a racist? I recall some dude on Fox screaming, “You know who talks about racism?! Racists!” Might be something like that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/253 "2015-03-13T16:48:06Z")
The _Republicans_ freed the slaves, didn’t you know? Musta been something like that. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/254 "2015-03-13T21:53:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Feel fee to ignore all Rush Limbaugh links. But thanks for the chuckle for trying to insinuate that he, specifically, was what I was linking to. Good one! I did not insinuate it; I said it. The first and prominent link in your little Google game was to Limbaugh and you provided no reason to skip over that link. The rest of the links on the first page were to Right Wing blogs of similar character echoing the same nonsense, so it really does not help your case to pretend that you were not using Limbaugh or his ilk to make your claim. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/255 "2015-03-13T22:22:51Z")
When is the next city election in Ferguson? The elections are [in April in odd-numbered years (which probably depresses voter turnout and needs to be changed).](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/08/18/3472278/this-is-the-most-important-reform-ferguson-can-enact-to-prevent-another-standoff/)[See also.](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322606/-Ferguson-s-election-turnout-is-terrible-by-design-Here-s-how-to-fix-it#) I’m not clear if that means one is coming next month. But, if so, perhaps we can expect higher voter turnout than Ferguson’s usually abysmal turnout? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/256 "2015-03-13T23:07:58Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Gannett News Service is making things easy for us. Click below and you can find out how often your local police force arrests black citizens, and whether that number corresponds to the percentage of blacks in the general population: > > [http://www.gannett-cdn.com/experiments/usatoday/2014/11/arrests-interactive/](http://www.gannett-cdn.com/experiments/usatoday/2014/11/arrests-interactive/) > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Where did they get their data? According to them, the Las Vegas Metro PD arrests 886.9 black people per 1000. I find it hard to believe that 90% of the black population is being arrested in Las Vegas. In Santa Barbara, the rate is 1015 black arrests per 1000 residents, and 229 white arrests. I find it extremely unlikely that the average black resident of Santa Barbara is arrested slightly more often than once per year. I guess there’s tourism to consider, but my working hypothesis is that whatever data source that website is using is no good. Either that, or, shit, time to move to Ferguson. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/257 "2015-03-13T23:14:41Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > In Santa Barbara, the rate is 1015 black arrests per 1000 residents, and 229 white arrests. I find it extremely unlikely that the average black resident of Santa Barbara is arrested slightly more often than once per year. A number of frequent flyers, blacks arrested several times each year, could account for it. I venture to guess that police in general only rarely arrest a person for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/258 "2015-03-13T23:42:39Z")
[Mayor Knowles carps about the DOJ report.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/13/392835913/ferguson-mayor-ferguson-mayor-slams-hostile-language-from-eric-holder) But does not, so far as I can see, dispute its findings. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/259 "2015-03-14T01:20:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > A number of frequent flyers, blacks arrested several times each year, could account for it. I venture to guess that police in general only rarely arrest a person for the first time. Depending on how the city and its suburbs are organized, it’s possible that a large number of blacks work, hang out, and are arrested in a given city without actually technically being residents of that city. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/260 "2015-03-14T02:42:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I venture to guess that police in general only rarely arrest a person for the first time. Huh? There’s annual loss due to attrition (death). There have to be new arrestees at least equal to attrition, or else they’d be winning the war on crime and closing down the barracks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604.md?page=14)