# DOJ report on racism and shakedown-artistry in the Ferguson PD **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604 "2015-03-09T15:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/401 "2015-03-17T11:27:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > There seems to be zero question that the police were out of control and doing some really shitty things. And I would not be surprised if some of the cops are, in fact, racist. What I haven’t seen yet is proof that convinces me that the motivation for the incidents was racial and not, as I’ve said, wound up affecting blacks more because when law enforcement affects the poor more, to will disparately affect any group that is disproportionately poor. And I don’t see this as giving the police a defense. Prey on the poor is a disgusting thing to do and I wish the cops involved for most of the specific incidents cited wind themselves in front of a judge and jury themselves. As we’ve said, the motivation (and intention) doesn’t matter. Racial bias can be present whatever the motivation or intention is. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/402 "2015-03-17T11:41:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As we’ve said, the motivation (and intention) doesn’t matter. Racial bias can be present whatever the motivation or intention is. Or indeed, as well explained in the report (and mandated by law), without a motivation or intention, but merely due to an awareness that the action of a government agency create a disparate impact on an identifiable ‘protected population’, when the government agency fails to take action to correct the racial disparity after they become aware of it. It is somewhat acceptable to target a specific population for law enforcement action if they are found to be statistically more likely to be in violation of the law… it is blatantly unacceptable to target a population when they are statistically _less_ likely to be in violation, which is what was happening in Ferguson. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/403 "2015-03-17T11:52:59Z")
[The Injustice the DOJ Uncovered in Ferguson Wasn’t Racism | National Review](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/415041/injustice-doj-uncovered-ferguson-wasnt-racism-ian-tuttle)" “Far more alarming in Ferguson than whether vestigial racism animates a policeman here and there is the perversion of the law, and of the positions of those sworn to protect it, to buck up the treasury on the backs of the most vulnerable, whoever they may be.” ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/404 "2015-03-17T12:05:21Z")
Yet more from the report… > [@](#): > > Information provided by the City reveals a haphazard bond system that results in people being erroneously arrested, and some people paying bond but not getting credit for having done so. Documents describe officers finding hundred dollar bills in their pockets that were given to them for bond payment and not remembering which jail detainee provided them; bond paperwork being found on the floor; and individuals being arrested after their bonds had been accepted because the corresponding warrants were never cancelled. At one point in 2012, Ferguson’s Court Clerk called such issues a “daily problem.” ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/405 "2015-03-17T12:18:47Z")
[http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/415462/ferguson-report-reminds-me-why-i-became-conservative-david-french](http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/415462/ferguson-report-reminds-me-why-i-became-conservative-david-french) > [@](#): > > We often take for granted the rule of law. If you are blessed to live in a town where the officials are relatively clean, or if you’re among the class of people that officials fear to cross, then public institutions seem benign — helpful, even. But there are millions of our fellow citizens who live a different reality, under the authority of different kinds of public officials — officials who view them as virtual ATMs, regardless of their ability to pay. And when the government imposes that mindset on police officers, forcing men and women who are trained to respond to (and anticipate) the most violent incidents to essentially become the armed tax collectors of a corrupt system, then that government is unjust, and its officials must be made to feel the bite of the Constitution that they’ve willfully and continually abused. Note that the quotes I’ve given are from conservative sources, those that are the least likely to be partial toward the conclusion of the report. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/406 "2015-03-17T13:26:44Z")
[The Shocking Finding From the DOJ's Ferguson Report That Nobody Has Noticed | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/the-shocking-finding-from-the-doj-ferguson_b_6858388.html) (a liberal source, but cited to the washington post at [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/05/ferguson-shows-how-a-police-force-can-turn-into-a-plundering-collection-agency/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/05/ferguson-shows-how-a-police-force-can-turn-into-a-plundering-collection-agency/)) “After Henry Davis was brutally beaten by four Ferguson officers, he found himself charged with “destruction of official property” for bleeding on their uniforms.” ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/407 "2015-03-17T13:46:44Z")
This one is a great illustration… supposedly, the disparate effect on blacks in Ferguson was due to a lack of ‘personal responsibility’, yet… “Ferguson judge behind aggressive fines policy owes $170,000 in unpaid taxes” > **[Ferguson judge behind aggressive fines policy owes $170,000 in unpaid taxes](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/06/ferguson-judge-owes-unpaid-taxes-ronald-brockmeyer)** > > Ronald J Brockmeyer, who is accused of fixing traffic tickets for himself and associates, was a driving force behind using fines and fees to generate revenue ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/408 "2015-03-17T14:40:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > the voters have deprived the state of the means to raise funds otherwise Well, then, the government needs to quit spending so much money. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/409 "2015-03-17T15:03:13Z")
> [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](#): > > [The Shocking Finding From the DOJ's Ferguson Report That Nobody Has Noticed | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-robinson/the-shocking-finding-from-the-doj-ferguson_b_6858388.html) (a liberal source, but cited to the washington post at [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/05/ferguson-shows-how-a-police-force-can-turn-into-a-plundering-collection-agency/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/05/ferguson-shows-how-a-police-force-can-turn-into-a-plundering-collection-agency/)) > > “After Henry Davis was brutally beaten by four Ferguson officers, he found himself charged with “destruction of official property” for bleeding on their uniforms.” Whoops, gave the wrong link there, the original article is actually at [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html) which is a somewhat liberal, though not horribly so, source. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/410 "2015-03-17T22:32:03Z")
[Jeez, even in Portland, Oregon . . .](http://www.thenation.com/blog/201545/why-cant-one-americas-most-progressive-cities-reform-its-police-force#) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/411 "2015-03-17T22:44:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Jeez, even in Portland, Oregon . . .](http://www.thenation.com/blog/201545/why-cant-one-americas-most-progressive-cities-reform-its-police-force#) Wow. It’s almost as if the electoral nature of local governments was completely unrelated to the utter disdain for law and order displayed by the criminal element. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/412 "2015-03-17T22:46:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Wow. It’s almost as if the electoral nature of local governments was completely unrelated to the utter disdain for law and order displayed by the criminal element. Yep, bad cops are pretty much the same all over… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/413 "2015-03-17T22:58:21Z")
I am a radical lefty, and I have a horrendously expensive, big-government solution: change the cops. All of them. Long job, get started. Make “cop” a profession. Well paid, well-respected, highly trained. Strictly accountable. Early retirement for stress. The good cops will stay and sing hallelujah, pension off the bad ones. Got lots of great ideas, most of them even less likely than this one. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/414 "2015-03-17T23:34:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Make “cop” a profession. Well paid, well-respected, highly trained. Is it not that now? I **know** cops are highly trained, they’ve made [seven movies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Academy_(franchise)) about it! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/415 "2015-03-18T00:40:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Wow. It’s almost as if the electoral nature of local governments was completely unrelated to the utter disdain for law and order displayed by the criminal element. Hey, irony alert! > [@](#): > > Within minutes Thai would be tackled by several officers, forced to the ground, tased and handcuffed. **Later, despite a judge’s ruling that the initial stop was illegal** , he’d face charges of resisting arrest, assaulting a public safety officer and attempted strangulation. Bolding mine. That’s the leitmotif of your posts in this thread, **Smapti** : defending, on the basis of law & order, police conduct which is unlawful, and leads to a breakdown in social order. Your vision of law & order has nothing in common with the laws of this nation, or even common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/416 "2015-03-18T04:08:02Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Well, then, the government needs to quit spending so much money. A known and well-discussed problem in St. Louis County is a proliferation of extremely small cities, with too little tax base to support their governments. Historically, as the city itself became increasingly black, the white middle class moved to new subdivisions farther to the west, which were immediately incorporated so that they could legislate zoning restrictions that were intended to keep them white. As these small cities then became more racially mixed over time, the pattern repeated itself, creating a patchwork of extremely small towns that are not able to support themselves through taxation. Typically, these towns are dominated by majority-white governments, courts, and police departments consisting of people who don’t even live there, but who are able to stay in power because most of the citizens are ‘renters’ who have no actual investment in the community. Since they are unable to sustain themselves through taxation, they resort to using the members of the community as revenue sources through various schemes based on extracting as much money as possible through fines. Ferguson is one example, but the problem is systemic throughout the area… small adjoining ‘cities’ whose only real function is to provide employment for the members of the local government. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/) > [@](#): > > There are 90 municipalities in St. Louis County, and more in the surrounding counties. All but a few have their own police force, mayor, city manager and town council, and 81 have their own municipal court. To put that into perspective, consider Jackson County, Mo., which surrounds Kansas City. It is geographically larger than St. Louis County and has about two-thirds the population. Yet Jackson County has just 19 municipalities, and just 15 municipal courts — less than a quarter of municipalities and courts in St. Louis County. > > Some of the towns in St. Louis County can derive 40 percent or more of their annual revenue from the petty fines and fees collected by their municipal courts. A majority of these fines are for traffic offenses, but they can also include fines for fare-hopping on MetroLink (St. Louis’s light rail system), loud music and other noise ordinance violations, zoning violations for uncut grass or unkempt property, violations of occupancy permit restrictions, trespassing, wearing “saggy pants,” business license violations and vague infractions such as “disturbing the peace” or “affray” that give police officers a great deal of discretion to look for other violations. In a white paper released last month (PDF), the ArchCity Defenders found a large group of people outside the courthouse in Bel-Ridge who had been fined for not subscribing to the town’s only approved garbage collection service. They hadn’t been fined for having trash on their property, only for not paying for the only legal method the town had designated for disposing of trash. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/417 "2015-03-18T04:19:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Wow. It’s almost as if the electoral nature of local governments was completely unrelated to the utter disdain for law and order displayed by the criminal element. Actually, what Portland’s example shows is that the electoral nature of local governments appears to be largely unrelated to the utter disdain for law and order displayed by officers of the law. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/418 "2015-03-18T04:27:05Z")
> [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](#): > > A known and well-discussed problem in St. Louis County is a proliferation of extremely small cities, with too little tax base to support their governments. Historically, as the city itself became increasingly black, the white middle class moved to new subdivisions farther to the west, which were immediately incorporated so that they could legislate zoning restrictions that were intended to keep them white. As these small cities then became more racially mixed over time, the pattern repeated itself, creating a patchwork of extremely small towns that are not able to support themselves through taxation. Typically, these towns are dominated by majority-white governments, courts, and police departments consisting of people who don’t even live there, but who are able to stay in power because most of the citizens are ‘renters’ who have no actual investment in the community. Since they are unable to sustain themselves through taxation, they resort to using the members of the community as revenue sources through various schemes based on extracting as much money as possible through fines. Ferguson is one example, but the problem is systemic throughout the area… small adjoining ‘cities’ whose only real function is to provide employment for the members of the local government. > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/) Hear ye, St. Louis County; hearken to my words, [Greater St. Louis Metropolitan Area](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_St._Louis): Go [Jacksonville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville_Consolidation). Go [_Cities Without Suburbs_](http://www.amazon.com/dp/1938027043/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=48960602916&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14039373910997904512&hvpone=18.95&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_8p5bunlgpx_b). Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. You’ll thank me in the morning, even if you have to flush and wipe your mouth first. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/419 "2015-03-18T05:53:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hear ye, St. Louis County; hearken to my words, [Greater St. Louis Metropolitan Area](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_St._Louis): Go [Jacksonville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville_Consolidation). Go [_Cities Without Suburbs_](http://www.amazon.com/dp/1938027043/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=48960602916&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14039373910997904512&hvpone=18.95&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_8p5bunlgpx_b). Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. You’ll thank me in the morning, even if you have to flush and wipe your mouth first. To do so in Missouri, as it stands, would require the (gasp! unthinkable!) idea of these city councilmen voting themselves out of a cushy job. ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Ray\_Vanlandingham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ray_Vanlandingham)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604/420 "2015-03-18T07:22:54Z")
If you think I am exaggerating, see the impressive St. Louis County metropolis of [Champ, Missouri](Champ, Missouri), which has a 2010 census population of exactly 13 people. This is not some tiny little town in the middle of nowhere, it is in the middle of a major metropolitan area, completely surrounded by other communities. “Champ’s five-member board of trustees, which governs the village, comprises half of the adult population.” [http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2001-02-14/news/the-champ/](http://www.riverfronttimes.com/2001-02-14/news/the-champ/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-report-on-racism-and-shakedown-artistry-in-the-ferguson-pd/714604.md?page=22)