# DoJ sues Sheriff Arpaio for civil-rights abuses; anyone care to take Arpaio's side here? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 12, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726 "2012-05-12T20:42:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/81 "2012-05-14T16:54:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Being a vagrant is not an immutable trait. > > Being targeted by police for no more reason than your race is offensive. It is government oppression of a given minority and makes members of that minority scared of the very people who are presumably there to protect them. So if one can change their situation, the prejudice directed at them is okay? ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/82 "2012-05-14T16:59:22Z")
Wouldn’t the simplest answer be to employ more Hispanics in the L.P.D. ? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/83 "2012-05-14T17:10:07Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > So if one can change their situation, the prejudice directed at them is okay? Nope…still sucks. This is more a matter of scale. Arpaio is scaring an entire swath of the population and there is no way that population can change the thing about themselves that makes them a target of Arpaio. I am willing to bet they outnumber vagrants. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/84 "2012-05-14T17:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you see this going differently anywhere else in the country? Yes. Most places in the country, the police wouldn’t try to arrest someone without a warrant in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/85 "2012-05-14T17:13:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > . > > And this is the sort of silly racist nonsense that is used to support failed policies, where you imply that all the people who match the description of your targeted ethnic group are “illegal immigrants or petty criminals, or have friends and or family who are so,” despite the fact that, in Arizona, nearly 30% of the population falls into the category most likely to be searched. You implication is that nearly 1.9 million people (out of about 6.3 million), are “illegal immigrants or petty criminals, or have friends and or family who are so” based on nothing more than their appearance. Sorry to double post but I missed this post earlier, did you read my post upthread about police in other countries profiling English football supporters ? And acting accordingly ? In case I didn’t make myself clear, I completely and totally agree with their actions, as do most Brits including British police forces, who actually assist them in their home cities. So if I’m being racist then I’m supposedly being racist against MY OWN RACE ! Incredible. Unfortunately the race card gets trotted out at every opportunity so that people can make themselves feel like martyrs. Over use has, and will, continue to devalue the suffering of real victims of racism. And theres many of you can give yourself a nice pat on the back for aiding and abetting this process. Too bad about the real victims though. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/86 "2012-05-14T17:18:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes. Most places in the country, the police wouldn’t try to arrest someone without a warrant in the first place. They were not arresting the woman “in the first place”. They stopped her. They told her to remain in place. She tried to leave. THEN they arrested her. That would have happened anywhere in the country, not just in Arpaio’s district. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/87 "2012-05-14T17:26:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They were not arresting the woman “in the first place”. They stopped her. They told her to remain in place. She tried to leave. THEN they arrested her. That would have happened anywhere in the country, not just in Arpaio’s district. (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > - You have the right to remain silent. If you wish to exercise that right, say so out loud. > - You have the right to refuse to consent to a search of yourself, your car or your home. > - **If you are not under arrest, you have the right to calmly leave.** > - You have the right to a lawyer if you are arrested. Ask for one immediately. > - Regardless of your immigration or citizenship status, you have constitutional rights. > > SOURCE: [Stopped by Police | American Civil Liberties Union](https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/88 "2012-05-14T17:29:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They were not arresting the woman “in the first place”. They stopped her. They told her to remain in place. She tried to leave. THEN they arrested her. That would have happened anywhere in the country, not just in Arpaio’s district. Would it really? > [@](#): > > The lawsuit recounts how a Latina woman who was five-months pregnant and a U.S. citizen was stopped as she pulled into the driveway. “After she exited her car, the officer then insisted that she sit on the hood of the car. When she refused, the officer grabbed her arms, puled them behind her back, and slammed her, stomach first, into the vehicle three times. He then dragged her to the patrol car and shoved her into the backseat,” reads the complaint. > > She was cited for failure to provide identification, which was later changed to failure to provide proof of insurance. The issue was resolved when the woman proved she had insurance to a court. > > In yet another case, two officers followed a Latina U.S. citizen a quarter of a mile to her home without flashing their lights. When she arrived home, they insisted that she stay in the car. The reason for the stop was a “non-functioning license plate light.” After she tried to enter her home, officers took her to the ground, kneed her in the back and handcuffed her. She was brought to a Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office (MCSO) substation and cited for “disorderly conduct,” which was later dismissed, according to the lawsuit. Would officers anywhere slam a pregnant woman belly first into a patrol car? Would they follow someone for a license plate light and then arrest them? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/89 "2012-05-14T17:29:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Nope…still sucks. > > This is more a matter of scale. Arpaio is scaring an entire swath of the population and there is no way that population can change the thing about themselves that makes them a target of Arpaio. I am willing to bet they outnumber vagrants. Many of the vagrants here are Hispanic. Arpaio is an elected official. He will cater to the whims of those who elect him. Phx is a problem are with illegal immigration. Many areas of the country do not have the issues we have here on this scale. Phx is a hub for illegal deliveries. I17 is a main thoroughfare for transportation. Is bigotry his motive? It wouldnt surprise me, but it isnt a stretch to say that the greater majority of our illegals are probably Hispanic. That isnt racism, that is statistics. There is a fine like between profiling by statistics, and profiling based on hate. He is full blooded Italian, and I can tell you from family experience, that generation of Italian can have race issues. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/90 "2012-05-14T17:32:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would officers anywhere slam a pregnant woman belly first into a patrol car? Would they follow someone for a license plate light and then arrest them? I was followed, in Illinois, for a broken tail light for about a mile (I presume while the officer was running my license plate through the computer) then was stopped and was given a ticket. If, during that stop, I attempted to leave, and didn’t follow the officer’s instructions to stay in place, I am sure I would have been arrested. Do you have a problem with that? I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/91 "2012-05-14T17:36:54Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Is bigotry his motive? It wouldnt surprise me, but it isnt a stretch to say that the greater majority of our illegals are probably Hispanic. That isnt racism, that is statistics. So you’d be ok with police shaking down men at random right? The statistics would support it: > [@](#): > > In the United States, men are much more likely to be incarcerated than women. Nearly 9 times as many men (5,037,000) as women (581,000) had ever at one time been incarcerated in a State or Federal prison at year end 2001. However, women are the fastest-growing demographic group in prison. Statistically the ratio of 9 to 1 has not changed making this increase worth study, however, it is nevertheless statistically insignificant. [1]. > > In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder. > > SOURCE: [Sex differences in crime - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_and_crime#In_the_United_States) ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/92 "2012-05-14T17:37:54Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Many of the vagrants here are Hispanic. > > Arpaio is an elected official. He will cater to the whims of those who elect him. Phx has a problem with illegal immigration. Many areas of the country do not have the issues we have here on this scale. Phx is a hub for illegal deliveries. I17 is a main thoroughfare for transportation. > > Is bigotry his motive? It wouldnt surprise me, but it isnt a stretch to say that the greater majority of our illegals are probably Hispanic. That isnt racism, that is statistics. > > There is a fine like between profiling by statistics, and profiling based on hate. He is full blooded Italian, and I can tell you from family experience, that generation of Italian can have race issues. Edit function expired ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/93 "2012-05-14T17:39:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > So you’d be ok with police shaking down men at random right? The statistics would support it: I didnt say that. I said, profiling isnt necessarily racist. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/94 "2012-05-14T17:41:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I was followed, in Illinois, for a broken tail light for about a mile (I presume while the officer was running my license plate through the computer) then was stopped and was given a ticket. If, during that stop, I attempted to leave, and didn’t follow the officer’s instructions to stay in place, I am sure I would have been arrested. Do you have a problem with that? I didn’t. So you’d have been cool with a pregnant woman getting slammed into a car? I doubt you’d have been arrested for going into your own house after getting stopped for a broken light. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/95 "2012-05-14T17:42:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would it really? > Would officers anywhere slam a pregnant woman belly first into a patrol car? Would they follow someone for a license plate light and then arrest them? 5 months pregnant isnt necessarily something that they would notice. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/96 "2012-05-14T17:44:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > (bolding mine) Wrong situation. Look further down: **IF YOU ARE STOPPED IN YOUR CAR** ## \*…Both drivers and passengers have the right to remain silent. **If you are a passenger, you can ask if you are free to leave**. If the officer says yes, sit silently or calmly leave. Even if the officer says no, you have the right to remain silent. \* So if you’re a driver, you’re not free to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/97 "2012-05-14T17:46:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > So you’d have been cool with a pregnant woman getting slammed into a car? I doubt you’d have been arrested for going into your own house after getting stopped for a broken light. “Slammed” - no. Bent over the car so that cuffs can be put on her - yes. If you’re resisting, yes, you will get “slammed”. And yes, if I was told to sit and wait in the car and I got out and headed into my own house, I am sure I would have been arrested. No question about it. I’ve had friends who had been detained and spent some hours in holding just for mouthing off to an officer during a traffic stop. Lily-white friends. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/98 "2012-05-14T17:51:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I mean: “When she arrived home, **they insisted that she stay in the car** … After **she tried to enter her home** , officers took her to the ground, kneed her in the back and handcuffed her.” > [@Terr](#): > > Wrong situation. Look further down: > > **IF YOU ARE STOPPED IN YOUR CAR** > > ## \*…Both drivers and passengers have the right to remain silent. **If you are a passenger, you can ask if you are free to leave**. If the officer says yes, sit silently or calmly leave. Even if the officer says no, you have the right to remain silent. \* > > So if you’re a driver, you’re not free to leave. Seems to me this was not a traffic stop. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/99 "2012-05-14T17:53:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Seems to me this was not a traffic stop. How was it not? She was in her car and was stopped for “non-functioning license plate light.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726/100 "2012-05-14T18:04:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How was it not? She was in her car and was stopped for “non-functioning license plate light.” I am not sure what case you are referencing but it seems you got your quote and facts a bit mixed up. From the link in the OP (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > The lawsuit recounts how a Latina woman who was five-months pregnant and a U.S. citizen was **stopped as she pulled into the driveway**. “ **After she exited her car** , the officer then insisted that she sit on the hood of the car. When she refused, the officer grabbed her arms, puled them behind her back, and slammed her, stomach first, into the vehicle three times. He then dragged her to the patrol car and shoved her into the backseat,” reads the complaint. > > **She was cited for failure to provide identification, which was later changed to failure to provide proof of insurance**. The issue was resolved when the woman proved she had insurance to a court. > > SOURCE: [Joe Arpaio Lawsuit: Justice Department Complaint Reveals Disturbing Allegations | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/justice-department-joe-arpaio-lawsuit_n_1507098.html?ref=politics) I’m missing the whole traffic stop part. She was in her driveway, had already exited the car and when all was said and done she was not cited with resisting arrest or failure to obey lawful orders or anything like that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-sues-sheriff-arpaio-for-civil-rights-abuses-anyone-care-to-take-arpaios-side-here/621726.md?page=6)