# DOJ trying to seize J20 protest website visitor logs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890 "2017-08-17T19:07:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/61 "2017-08-20T03:41:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Can you understand the near impossibility of hitting all critical websites at the same time? > It’s just not cost effective. If they can use one or two as an example, then they possibly intimidate the others. Is that a ‘no’ then? Or an evasion? I’m having a hard time parsing an answer to my question out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/62 "2017-08-20T03:46:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Is that a ‘no’ then? Or an evasion? I’m having a hard time parsing an answer to my question out of this. I believe you are asking why that site and not this one, and my answer is that one caught their eye because of resent online activity( and possibly a higher rate of activity) they decided to slap it down, rather then spend months analyzing which site would be the absolute best to use as an example. A quick decision/the luck of the draw etc. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/63 "2017-08-20T03:56:57Z")
I am against such a trawl, not so much because I use DreamHost and if not that fast they have been pretty good to me but since it certainly makes government surveillance more terrible. It was insane enough under Obama without going further. Still, I can understand why terrorists etc. have to be at least checked if not stopped. However if this action were purposed to find Putin’s super-secret daily instructions to Trump the liberals would be applauding madly. Even if it meant Donald staying in Florence Supermax for the rest of his life on tainted evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/64 "2017-08-20T07:22:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The US Attorney we are talking about is functioning as the prosecutor for DC. I don’t have any reason to believe that the FBI or NSA provide routine support to the US Attorney when he is prosecuting local, non-Federal crimes. Do you have evidence of that? What does ‘routine’ have to do with it? (Not that the DOJ mining indiscriminately for data is routine anyway.) It doesn’t have to happen regularly for it to happen. The DOJ, though, certainly requests investigations from the FBI in cases other than prosecuting federal crimes. Just one example of ‘routine’ is background checks for clearances. All felony prosecutions in DC are done by AUSA’s (or the US Attorney for DC him/herself, presumably). If there’s some kind of distinction between the range of investigative tools that can be used in non-federal crimes as opposed to federal and/or local ones, I’m unaware of them. But if you have some such evidence, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/65 "2017-08-20T10:33:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > What does ‘routine’ have to do with it? (Not that the DOJ mining indiscriminately for data is routine anyway.) It doesn’t have to happen regularly for it to happen. The DOJ, though, certainly requests investigations from the FBI in cases other than prosecuting federal crimes. Just one example of ‘routine’ is background checks for clearances. Clearances for access to classified information hardly has anything to do with the FBI or NSA assisting in the prosecution of a local crime. And in any case, the vast majority of those investigations are carried out by the National Background Investigations Bureau by contractors. > [@](#): > > All felony prosecutions in DC are done by AUSA’s (or the US Attorney for DC him/herself, presumably). If there’s some kind of distinction between the range of investigative tools that can be used in non-federal crimes as opposed to federal and/or local ones, I’m unaware of them. But if you have some such evidence, feel free. Uh, I am supposed to provide evidence to disprove a claim that nobody can bother to back up? It doesn’t work like that. When I have been on juries in DC for serious crimes, I assure you that there were no mentions of the FBI or NSA, and given my experience in the national security policy sector, the idea of the NSA assisting in the prosecution of some people smashing windows strikes me as thoroughly ridiculous. So I guess nobody can back up this silly claim. My job is done on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/66 "2017-08-20T13:14:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When I have been on juries in DC for serious crimes, I assure you that there were no mentions of the FBI or NSA, and given my experience in the national security policy sector, the idea of the NSA assisting in the prosecution of some people smashing windows strikes me as thoroughly ridiculous. More to the legal point: it’s irrelevant. If they have probable cause they can get a search warrant. The subject of a search warrant cannot generally quash the warrant by claiming that the government could also use another investigative agency and method and get most of the same information that way. Whether the FBI and NSA could step in or not has zero bearing on the validity of the warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/67 "2017-08-20T15:44:58Z")
And even ethically it is absurd. “Lookit the NSA violate Americans’ privacy! Why can’t the authorities just rely on that violation of our rights?” (Not that I buy into that, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/68 "2017-08-23T01:16:10Z")
Breaking news: government issues a writ of do-over. It says it meant only to get the data of certain users, not all of them. Amazingly, the government said the broad warrant was an unfortunate mistake. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/69 "2017-08-23T16:29:18Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Breaking news: government issues a writ of do-over. It says it meant only to get the data of certain users, not all of them. Amazingly, the government said the broad warrant was an unfortunate mistake. What they really said (to themselves) was “Well, you can’t blame us for trying. A wide-raging fishing expedition is easier than working to narrow the search, after all, and think of all the goodies we might have found!” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/70 "2017-08-23T16:39:00Z")
Sometimes it is hard to distinguish malice from incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/71 "2017-08-23T17:21:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In the case before us, what specific crime are they are they basing the search warrant on? > [@Bricker](#): > > Violations of DC Code § 22-1322. Uhhh, my puppy chewed up the volume of my copy of the code containing that section. Could you do a Doper a solid? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890/72 "2017-08-23T17:25:37Z")
It is the local law that prohibits rioting, and inciting a riot. The case involves 200+ people who were arrested for smashing windows and causing mayhem in downtown DC during and shortly after Trump’s inauguration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/doj-trying-to-seize-j20-protest-website-visitor-logs/793890.md?page=3)