# "Dollars" in Victorian England? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636 "2019-01-29T21:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/1 "2019-01-29T21:06:44Z")
I was re-reading Arthur Conan Doyle’s _The Man with the Twisted Lip_, one of his Sherlock Holmes stories. I was struck by this line, in which an English gentleman describes how he discovered that he could make more money begging than in his previous job as a newspaper reporter: > [@](#): > > It was a long fight between my pride and the money, but the dollars won at last … Why would Conan Doyle, writing dialog for a native English character in a story set in London, use the word “dollars”? Did this have some meaning in Victorian England other than currency used in a foreign country? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/2 "2019-01-29T21:29:21Z")
Idiom. I couldn’t find any real usage of Doyle’s term in an big Australian newspaper database search for this period, but the term ‘Almighty dollar’ had reasonable currency [pause for laughter]. ‘Dollar’ worked for Doyle’s literate audience, and there was the added tone I think for a British audience that this was slightly more crass and mercenary money than working for proper sterling. He was very good at articulating slight nuances of detail reflecting class and status which, of course Sherlock Holmes made his bread and butter. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/3 "2019-01-29T21:33:22Z")
Was your copy published in UK or US? When publishing a book from across the pond, editors will often “translate” things to make it easier for the local audience. The Harry Potter books were notorious for this, and you can find websites going into great detail about the changes. Arthur C. Clarke specifically added a clause in his contracts to compel American publishers to use British spelling and punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/4 "2019-01-29T21:40:46Z")
If he’s referring to loose change, a [crown coin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_(British_coin)) could be a dollar. ETA anyway, it’s not like dollar-notes, dollared men, etc. were obscure references ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/5 "2019-01-29T21:42:23Z")
The [Wikipedia article on “dollar”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar#Usage_in_the_United_Kingdom) points out that the word is used in Shakespeare’s plays and that a nineteenth-century five shilling piece was called a dollar sometimes. So the word is familiar to Brits. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/6 "2019-01-29T21:57:41Z")
How about dollars in Elizabethan England? That now Sweno, the Norways’ king, craves composition. Nor would we deign him burial of his men Till he disbursed at Saint Colme’s Inch Ten thousand dollars to our general use. -_MacBeth_ Here, Shakespeare is clearly indicating the they’re getting paid by a foreign king, and those are literal (if an anachronism for the period in which the play is set) dollars. In the Doyle quote, he’s employing a common idiomatic trick of replacing the local currency with a foreign one, the way an American might substitute pesos or sheckles for dollars when talking casually about money. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/7 "2019-01-29T22:02:18Z")
It’s still - occasionally - used as slang for cash in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/8 "2019-01-29T23:20:10Z")
Well, you ought to know, with that user name. Speaking of which, “greenback” is also a word that, at least originally, referred to US currency. Is “greenback” also current in the UK to refer to money in general, not US currency? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/9 "2019-01-29T23:48:05Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Well, you ought to know, with that user name. > > Speaking of which, “greenback” is also a word that, at least originally, referred to US currency. Is “greenback” also current in the UK to refer to money in general, not US currency? I don’t think so, although the term is fairly well-known for US dollar notes. Note that my username is that of a megalomaniac cartoon toad, rather than anything directly currency-specific. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/10 "2019-01-29T23:58:21Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Note that my username is that of a megalomaniac cartoon toad, rather than anything directly currency-specific. 😃 Penfold and I suspected as much. I’m surprised the good Baron isn’t your avatar. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/11 "2019-01-30T00:54:23Z")
The James Bond films in the 60’s and 70’s sometimes did this, which makes me curious if the scripts were written with American audiences in mind or if there’s still some imperial standard stuff that was still left over, like referring to stuff measured in inches and using Fahrenheit temperatures instead of Celsius. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/12 "2019-01-30T01:39:14Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Was your copy published in UK or US? When publishing a book from across the pond, editors will often “translate” things to make it easier for the local audience. Right. The Holmes books were notoriously edited for American audiences to use more familiar terms. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/13 "2019-01-30T01:49:59Z")
Don’t you guys also use “penny” as a slang term, even though there are no official pennies in American currency? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/14 "2019-01-30T01:57:28Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Don’t you guys also use “penny” as a slang term, even though there are no official pennies in American currency? As in “That must have cost a pretty penny!” Yes, but that expression goes way back, and pennies were discontinued in the US fairly recently. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/15 "2019-01-30T02:03:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > [@mbh](#): > > > > Was your copy published in UK or US? When publishing a book from across the pond, editors will often “translate” things to make it easier for the local audience. > > Right. The Holmes books were notoriously edited for American audiences to use more familiar terms. I’ve been Googling for the text of the story, and as far as I can tell, the word dollars was in the original. (Ideally, I’d like to see the text as it appeared in The Strand Magazine but haven’t been able to find that yet.) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/16 "2019-01-30T02:09:40Z")
terentii writes: \> . . . pennies were discontinued in the US . . . No, they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/17 "2019-01-30T02:33:58Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Well, you ought to know, with that user name. > > Speaking of which, “greenback” is also a word that, at least originally, referred to US currency. Is “greenback” also current in the UK to refer to money in general, not US currency? _Greenback_ is specific to the US, as the US is the only place (so far as I know) where the banknotes are all greenish. Most places have different colours for different denominations, and have had for so long that the colours are now “traditional” for those denominations. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/18 "2019-01-30T03:05:57Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > _Greenback_ is specific to the US, as the US is the only place (so far as I know) where the banknotes are all greenish. > > Most places have different colours for different denominations, and have had for so long that the colours are now “traditional” for those denominations. Greenback dates back to the paper currency issued during the Civil War, when just the reverse side was green. Later paper money was green on both sides, but the slang expression had taken hold. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/19 "2019-01-30T03:19:31Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > terentii writes: > > \> . . . pennies were discontinued in the US . . . > > No, they weren’t. AIUI “penny” is just a slang term for “one cent” - right? Like “nickel” is for “five cents” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/20 "2019-01-30T03:24:31Z")
Yes, and neither the penny (one-cent coin) or the nickel (five-cent coin) have been discontinued in the US, even though they actually cost more than face value to produce and are essentially worthless. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636.md?page=2)