# "Dollars" in Victorian England? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636 "2019-01-29T21:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/21 "2019-01-30T06:37:34Z")
_This planet has – or rather had – a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn’t the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy._ This is from the 20th printing of the original British paperback edition (the one with the weird stripey cover). On the one hand, British currency is not predominantly green; on the other hand, he is talking about an entire planet whose economy is dominated by a nation that uses currency that is mostly green. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/22 "2019-01-30T08:23:49Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > terentii writes: > > \> . . . pennies were discontinued in the US . . . > > No, they weren’t. Really? I’m surprised. Canada discontinued the penny several years ago, and Russia dropped the kopek around the same time. I assumed this was now a thing, and thought the US (along with other countries) had followed suit. Has the American government given any rationale as to why they’re hanging on to the penny? I haven’t been to the US since January 2000, but I still have a bunch of pennies I never spent. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/23 "2019-01-30T09:12:37Z")
The word “dollar” originated as an alternative spelling for the different silver coins called [“thaler”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaler). ACD is simply using it to refer to money in general. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/24 "2019-01-30T09:14:13Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Really? I’m surprised. Canada discontinued the penny several years ago, and Russia dropped the kopek around the same time. I assumed this was now a thing, and thought the US (along with other countries) had followed suit. You mean… like how the US has got board an adopted the metric system like everyone else? Oh, wait… Americans are _stubborn_… > [@](#): > > Has the American government given any rationale as to why they’re hanging on to the penny? Inertia and public outcry every time they try to make a change in the currency. A certain segment of the population will scream they’re being “cheated” if prices start being rounded off > [@](#): > > I haven’t been to the US since January 2000, but I still have a bunch of pennies I never spent. Good news - they’re still legal currency. Unlike the small bowl of Canadian pennies we have where I work, along with a few paper Canadian dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/25 "2019-01-30T13:50:02Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > The James Bond films in the 60’s and 70’s sometimes did this, which makes me curious if the scripts were written with American audiences in mind or if there’s still some imperial standard stuff that was still left over, like referring to stuff measured in inches and using Fahrenheit temperatures instead of Celsius. Britain still uses inches, and did so almost exclusively in the 1960s and 1970s. Fahrenheit would also have been the default in that era - it’s only in the 1980s or even 1990s that Celsius took over in daily discourse, and even nowadays many people still use Fahrenheit, at least when talking about warm summer temperatures (if there’s a heatwave on the way, the newspapers will always trumpet the fact that it could reach 85F or 90F). Regarding “dollars”, in Victorian times that word used to be slang for a crown (five shillings, or a quarter of a pound sterling), reflecting the fact that the exchange rate used to be four dollars to the pound. (It’s now about $1.30 ☹ ). In Cockney rhyming slang, a crown was referred to as an “Oxford” (Oxford scholar = dollar). ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/26 "2019-01-30T13:57:26Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon;21460204(if there’s a heatwave on the way, the newspapers will always trumpet the fact that it could reach 85F or 90F).[/QUOTE] Odd definition of heat-wave - the American midwest considers that a nice summer day, and we might need to put on a jacket. And yes, I know ‘normal’ temperature varies - probably people in Seattle would agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/27 "2019-01-30T14:03:13Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Odd definition of heat-wave - the American midwest considers that a nice summer day, and we might need to put on a jacket. And yes, I know ‘normal’ temperature varies - probably people in Seattle would agree with you. Bear in mind that even London, in the south of England, is further north than three-quarters of the population of Canada. Actually probably more like 90% of the population. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/28 "2019-01-30T14:16:14Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Britain still uses inches, and did so almost exclusively in the 1960s and 1970s. Fahrenheit would also have been the default in that era - it’s only in the 1980s or even 1990s that Celsius took over in daily discourse, and even nowadays many people still use Fahrenheit, at least when talking about warm summer temperatures (if there’s a heatwave on the way, the newspapers will always trumpet the fact that it could reach 85F or 90F). Speaking of Harry Potter, I remember in the beginning of the _Order of the Phoenix_ movie a radio announcer giving the expected temperature in Fahrenheit during a heat wave. I was wondering if the movie had been Americanized but maybe it was reflecting reality. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/29 "2019-01-30T16:49:06Z")
I have a copy of _The Original Illustrated Sherlock Holmes_ which has all the \*Strand \*stories and art in their original form. Yes, dollars is used there. But not American dollars. Baring-Gould’s _Annotated Sherlock Holmes_ has an explanation. > [@](#): > > The late A. Carson Simpson pointed out (_Numismatics in the Canon_, Part 1) that “dollar” is English slang for the crown, or 5-shilling piece. We must read “crowns” when a Canonical character whose background is purely British speaks of “dollars” (as James Browner does in “The Cardboard Box.”: “All was as bright as a new dollar.”). It’s still true that American editors changed Holmes frequently but that’s an odd bit of legitimate English slang. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/30 "2019-01-30T16:53:54Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Note that my username is that of a megalomaniac cartoon toad, rather than anything directly currency-specific. 😃 And, specifically, a megalomaniac cartoon toad in an English cartoon! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/31 "2019-01-30T16:54:14Z")
For reference, the names of American coins, as stamped on them, are “One Cent”, “Five Cents”, “One Dime”, “Quarter Dollar”, “Half Dollar”, and “One Dollar” (sometimes “$1”). ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/32 "2019-01-30T17:29:23Z")
In the days of the Gold Standard, a US dollar was consistently worth about 5 shillings. Although the crown (5s) coin went out of regular circulation long ago, the half-crown stayed in use and was the highest value coin in circulation until decimalisation in 1971. My father and his generation still referred to “half a dollar”, even then. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/33 "2019-01-30T20:35:00Z")
My John Murray Jonathan Cape edition of the short stories uses ‘dollars’. The American Doubleday edition (since reprinted under other imprints) normally follows the ‘Strand’ magazine text. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/34 "2019-01-30T21:48:00Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Odd definition of heat-wave - the American midwest considers that a nice summer day, and we might need to put on a jacket. And yes, I know ‘normal’ temperature varies - probably people in Seattle would agree with you. \ 85-90? That’s more of a May temperature around here. Then again, our low/high spread today was 28/53, so I guess I can’t complain. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/35 "2019-01-30T22:03:26Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Speaking of Harry Potter, I remember in the beginning of the _Order of the Phoenix_ movie a radio announcer giving the expected temperature in Fahrenheit during a heat wave. I was wondering if the movie had been Americanized but maybe it was reflecting reality. Just checked my UK copy- it gives the temperature in Celsius, then Fahrenheit. That would not be all that odd here; Celsius is definitely the default for weather forecasts, ‘temperatures around 15°’ with no scale, would be Celsius, and you wouldn’t ever get it just in Fahrenheit, but they may well say both. Especially for an unusually high temperature, more dramatic sounding numbers and all that. In my mid 30s, I have only the vaguest idea of Fahrenheit, I only ever seem to see it on trashy tabloids, accompanied by something like ‘HOTTER THAN CORFU!’ often with comedically low temperatures, like [this.](https://www.anorak.co.uk/397490/reviews/tabloids-summer-heatwave-sweepstake-which-paper-can-guess-the-right-temperature-first.html) Cold weather is in Celsius, 'cos they can stick a - in front of it and sound scary. We have a very strange relationship with metric/imperial measures here too; if you asked someone to measure a strange object, you’d almost certainly get a measurement in cm from anyone under the age of around 40. But… many things are still called by their size in inches, road signs are miles and yards, and if you asked even a teenager how tall they were, you’d have a good chance of getting a height in feet and inches. Fuel is sold by the litre, beer is sold by the pint in a pub, 500ml in the supermarket, milk can be anything. Almost nothing is sold by the lb. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/36 "2019-01-30T22:22:34Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Cold weather is in Celsius, 'cos they can stick a - in front of it and sound scary. [But is that a “minus” or a “negative”?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=869876) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/37 "2019-01-30T22:27:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > \ > > 85-90? That’s more of a May temperature around here. > > Then again, our low/high spread today was 28/53, so I guess I can’t complain. I was in England the summer of 1995. The temperature hit 87 and the newspapers were screaming that it was the hottest day since Queen Victoria lost her virginity or something like that. Remember, England doesn’t have air conditioning. Or ice. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/38 "2019-01-30T22:59:39Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > For reference, the names of American coins, as stamped on them, are “One Cent”, “Five Cents”, “One Dime”, “Quarter Dollar”, “Half Dollar”, and “One Dollar” (sometimes “$1”). I’ve been American just about my whole life, and my understanding has always been that “one cent” and “five cents” are the values of coins that are named “penny” and “nickel.” They just don’t have the name printed on them — in their current forms, anyway; I don’t know about earlier designs. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/39 "2019-01-31T00:29:34Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > For reference, the names of American coins, as stamped on them, are “One Cent”, “Five Cents”, “One Dime”, “Quarter Dollar”, “Half Dollar”, and “One Dollar” (sometimes “$1”). I just went over this with my college-age students. The sample Java program we were working on (to give change) gave the results as “quarters, dimes, nickels, and pennies”) which led to the side discussion on what’s actually on the coins. They thought the five cent coin said nickel, and the one cent coin said penny. I showed them a picture of an (old seated Britannia) UK penny- now that’s a penny! They also didn’t know that the dime said “one dime” and had no idea where the word dime came from, which we then explored. I remember from my college days that these off-topic discussions were often the most interesting part of the day, at least better than another Java program. Back to the OP, there was a 1804 Bank of England [Dollar](http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/Great_Britain_1804_Bank_of_England_dollar), also engraved as five shillings (or a crown). To relieve a shortage of silver coins, it was overstruck on a Spanish colonial coin, which was also the monetary basis of the US dollar. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636/40 "2019-01-31T00:53:18Z")
There was also the Scottish “sword dollar” - 30 shilling coin officially named the Ryal, struck by James VI [piccies](https://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/68831) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollars-in-victorian-england/828636.md?page=3)