# Dollhouse 1/15 "Hollow Man" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 16, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164 "2010-01-16T03:07:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/41 "2010-01-18T22:56:39Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > He captured Caroline after finding out her physiology may create the anti-wipe vaccine. So why did he enroll her in the dollhouse and have her run typical whoring missions all that time? Why was it needed to create the echo personality? It sounded like her physiology was sufficient to create the vaccine - was having her resist/meld implants a required step in the process? > > What exactly is his goal in this situation? I was perplexed that he seemed to think that the future wiping tech was inevitable and would lead to the destruction of mankind, but he was the primary driver in developing it. It seems like he could’ve put a halt to it at any time, but went way out of his way at every step to make sure it happened. There are a lot of loose ends that were never addressed, up to an including the question, Why did Boyd go undercover? He could have easily monitored Echo without going out into the field. Also, why use the LA dollhouse, run by a woman with a conscience? Why not one of the others where the people would just follow orders? However, I don’t see the need for the next episode, or for the flashforward in the last one. The show should have ended with Echo saying, “we’ve saved the world” – with the clear doubt in the setup that they had. I think all this is a result of the show being cancelled early. They probably knew they wouldn’t get more than 13 weeks, and decided to improvise an ending. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/42 "2010-01-18T23:07:11Z")
Nevermind ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/43 "2010-01-18T23:17:24Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > There are a lot of loose ends that were never addressed, up to an including the question, Why did Boyd go undercover? He could have easily monitored Echo without going out into the field. > > Also, why use the LA dollhouse, run by a woman with a conscience? Why not one of the others where the people would just follow orders? > > However, I don’t see the need for the next episode, or for the flashforward in the last one. The show should have ended with Echo saying, “we’ve saved the world” – with the clear doubt in the setup that they had. > > I think all this is a result of the show being cancelled early. They probably knew they wouldn’t get more than 13 weeks, and decided to improvise an ending. Only answer I have is that Boyd went undercover specifically to have himself imprinted on Echo so that she would always trust him… didn’t work out so well, but that was his plan. He chose Adelle likely for 2 reasons - Topher and she was, until the end, pro-dollhouse. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/44 "2010-01-19T00:47:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I don’t understand what Boyd’s deal is in the series now. Can someone try to explain it to me step by step? > > He captured Caroline after finding out her physiology may create the anti-wipe vaccine. So why did he enroll her in the dollhouse and have her run typical whoring missions all that time? Why was it needed to create the echo personality? It sounded like her physiology was sufficient to create the vaccine - was having her resist/meld implants a required step in the process? > > What exactly is his goal in this situation? I was perplexed that he seemed to think that the future wiping tech was inevitable and would lead to the destruction of mankind, but he was the primary driver in developing it. It seems like he could’ve put a halt to it at any time, but went way out of his way at every step to make sure it happened. I don’t get that either. I guess perhaps they _thought_ she might be able to resist the implants but couldn’t be sure. And sending her out as a normal doll was a better test than keeping her in a lab being repeatedly imprinted, because that’s not how the brainpocalypse (:D) would work - that would be done on people out in the real world. If she was able/unable to resist the imprinting in a lab then that could be something to do with the conditions there. And Boyd would stay with her because it’s his pet project and he wants to make sure it goes right. Heh, maybe I do get it after all. 😃 > [@](#): > > Why did he care what happened to the LA Dollhouse gang? Just sentimental reasons since he’d been working with them all this time? Yep, looks that way. He loved them. Most people need somebody to love, even genocidal lunatics. And he was choosing people to spend eternity with - they were the best options he had; keeping his identity secret for so many years would have made it hard to make friends. It’s kinda the obverse to the sociopath earlier in the series who created his ‘family’ out of other people’s bodies, not caring whose mind was in there. > [@Ataraxy](#): > > Caroline was returned to Echo’s body so that she could ID Boyd. Boyd drugged her so that she would not ID him until they got to HQ, at least. There was much speculation among the characters about what would happen when Caroline got her body back. When she sobered up at HQ, except for knowing Boyd was a bad guy, she was no different. That irritated me. In the end, was she Echo or Caroline? > > When the actors got imprints they were different. You could even tell the difference between regular Mellie and Assassin Mellie. Even during the flashbacks, I couldn’t tell any difference between Echo and Caroline. Eliza Dushku is hot, but she is a horrible actress. That’s because she was Echo, not Caroline. She just added Caroline’s imprint to her collection. I’m sure they state outright that she’s Echo. Eliza Dushku’s acting is pretty terrible compared to the rest of the cast, but this time her acting’s not at fault. I am still a bit confused about Clyde. He escaped from the attic and became evil? That’s a bit of a big change. The Clyde we see is a download of the original Clyde, and the original Clyde is still in the attic? But their personalities are nothing alike. He was never in the attic? Well, who was the Clyde we saw, then? Or maybe the Clyde we saw in the attic was created by the original Clyde in order to pass the good guys the information that would lead them to try to destroy Rossum HQ. This was brought up in the episode but I can’t recall exactly what they said. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/45 "2010-01-19T01:24:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > This part was canon before Clyde 1.0 showed up… > > Topher didn’t create it, but he made it light years better than it’s original design. > > While Clyde 1.0 doesn’t invalidate Topher’s contributions to the Dollhouse, it strains credibility to state a computer-based technology didn’t advance at all in 20 years. Someone would have come along before Topher to improve it. Who’s to say that what Topher improved was the original design? It’s possible that the original chair was even worse than the one they were using when Topher came in. It seems like they use the imprinters to improve the tech. Like Bennett’s chair had the weird screen that went over the Doll’s face. No idea what that actually does though. ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/46 "2010-01-19T03:31:25Z")
Does anyone else think Carolines super special spinal fluid is a cop out on similar level to the midichlorians in Star Wars Ep I? ---
**Author:** ![Pigs\_in\_Space](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@Pigs\_in\_Space](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pigs_in_Space)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/47 "2010-01-19T06:46:56Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > There are a lot of loose ends that were never addressed, up to an including the question, Why did Boyd go undercover? He could have easily monitored Echo without going out into the field. He didn’t go undercover until Alpha’s first attack. Maybe he decided to be closer to her? And we can’t forget the batshit crazy explanation. Clyde X.0 is Clyde 1.0 plus loyalty to Boyd, plus kung fu, etc. S/he’s based on the original, but with added features. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/48 "2010-01-19T16:42:39Z")
The donor test for Caroline’s cousin alerted Rossum to her special physiology, however, the special bits weren’t plentiful. I can’t remember what the devil Boyd called them but Echo’s body creates something every time she rejects an imprint. So, when Rossum noticed Caroline’s special physiology, they really just noticed potential. I figure Caroline started sniffing around Rossum and in the course of investigating her they discovered how gnarly her blood/spine/whatever was. They put her on the “bring her in alive” list. Unfortunately, once caught, they couldn’t figure out how to make Caroline reach her potential, they either didn’t know that rejecting imprints is the magic or they just didn’t know how to make her reject an imprint. In any case, once they poke, prod, and reach a dead end, Boyd decides to make her an active - imprint her over and over again in the hope that eventually she’ll realize her potential. Which is actually a pretty logical last ditch solution - may as well farm work out of her if nothing else. Echo was uninteresting until Alpha jump started things, that’s when Boyd goes undercover. I didn’t get a “save the world” vibe from Boyd at all. He actually says that he’d rather be the destroyer than the destroyed and that only a select few will be saved. He absolutely wasn’t aiming to save the world, he only wanted to inoculate himself and a cadre of loyal followers. The Rossum explosion was poorly done but I rather assumed that the snazzy, interesting bits of the company were underground like the L.A. Dollhouse. That’s my fanwank for the fireball that made the building wiggle. Saunders/Whiskey/Claire/Clyde is a snarl isn’t it? I really like the idea that Whiskey/Claire popped Bennett because of her warped relationship with Topher. Remember the scene with Boyd packing a bag and Claire doesn’t want him to go? That’d be a pretty pointless scene if Clyde was in control at that juncture. I’m choosing to believe that it was Claire who shot Bennett. When the Rossum dudes in the black pj’s come shoot up the place, they kill staff and haul any stray actives back to Tuscon. So our heroes get away but Saunders is spirited away and Clyde snaps up that shiny new body because Amy Acker is hot. I’m really confused about the Rossum invasion of the L.A. Dollhouse, I couldn’t tell if they repelled the invasion or not, kind of half and half? Can someone explain that to me? Another thing that bothers me, I only saw Epitaph I once, but I remember a flashback with Echo/Caroline and Adelle - E/C and Paul have returned to liberate ex-actives. E/C acts like she’s going to kill Adelle, wtf? Aren’t they all buddy-buddy same team now? Why are there actives there at all? Didn’t Adelle get’em all back to square one and booted out? I guess that’s probably something that’ll get cleared up in the next episode but I wondered if anybody had thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/49 "2010-01-20T01:26:55Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > Another thing that bothers me, I only saw Epitaph I once, but I remember a flashback with Echo/Caroline and Adelle - E/C and Paul have returned to liberate ex-actives. E/C acts like she’s going to kill Adelle, wtf? Aren’t they all buddy-buddy same team now? Why are there actives there at all? Didn’t Adelle get’em all back to square one and booted out? I guess that’s probably something that’ll get cleared up in the next episode but I wondered if anybody had thoughts. I think that’s the trick. That scene might be a lot later on from now. The dollhouse might go back in action. I have a question way back from Season One. Did we ever find out who sent to secret message to Ballard via Echo? I know Dominic got the blame as the mole but I thought he was just a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![justafriend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@justafriend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justafriend)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/50 "2010-01-20T06:20:31Z")
I decided to believe that Alpha was the “mole”. He was feeding info to Ballard so that Ballard could get Alpha back into the dollhouse. It doesn’t work out perfectly (how the heck did Alpha remote print someone?) but since we weren’t given any further info, and they dropped that storyline after Alpha gets in, that’s what I’m going with. Speaking of Alpha, what’s up with him now? Do you think he’ll be in Epitaph II? ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/51 "2010-01-20T13:34:45Z")
> [@justafriend](#): > > I decided to believe that Alpha was the “mole”. He was feeding info to Ballard so that Ballard could get Alpha back into the dollhouse. It doesn’t work out perfectly (how the heck did Alpha remote print someone?) but since we weren’t given any further info, and they dropped that storyline after Alpha gets in, that’s what I’m going with. > Speaking of Alpha, what’s up with him now? Do you think he’ll be in Epitaph II? I think you’re spot on, I thought it was confirmed that Alpha was using Ballard to get into the Dollhouse. Alpha seemed to have a pretty good grasp on the tech and I believe he could have managed a remote wipe. Such a big deal was made about Topher figuring out remote wipes/chairless tech that I don’t think it was Dominic or even Boyd trying to trigger a glitch. I only watched Season 1 once though, so I could easily be mistaken. I’m looking forward to reviewing knowing that Boyd is loony. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/52 "2010-01-23T16:47:45Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > I think you’re spot on, I thought it was confirmed that Alpha was using Ballard to get into the Dollhouse. Alpha seemed to have a pretty good grasp on the tech and I believe he could have managed a remote wipe. IIRC, Alpha was the one that _came up_ with the remote wipe - he uses it in Season 1 to wipe Echo during the “art thief” engagement. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164/53 "2010-01-23T21:41:59Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > IIRC, Alpha was the one that _came up_ with the remote wipe - he uses it in Season 1 to wipe Echo during the “art thief” engagement. And this is what gives Topher the idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-1-15-hollow-man/525164.md?page=2)