# Dollhouse 12/04 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 5, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063 "2009-12-05T03:24:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/21 "2009-12-07T17:57:38Z")
> [@WomanofScorn](#): > > Did they do a dub of Topher’s voice or something? Because Victor sounded exactly like him. I don’t think so. I think Enver just \*nailed \*Topher’s pacing and inflection. [QUOTE=jackdavinci] 2) Senator Doll. Called this, though I didn’t think he’d be just a partial doll, an improved version of his actual self. Also knew the wife wasn’t a doll but didn’t consider that she’d be his handler. [/QUOTE] I totally called that on the second repeat of the Knight/Damsel call and response. I was surprised how much she hated him, however. [QUOTE=jackdavinci] Did they finally get to the senator, or is he just playing along? [/QUOTE] I think they got him. He did was he was supposed to do, he exonerated the Rossell Corp (sp?) and publicly discredited Millie. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/22 "2009-12-07T18:11:21Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I think they got him. He did was he was supposed to do, he exonerated the Rossell Corp (sp?) and publicly discredited Millie. I don’t think they got to him so much as that was his sleeper programming. He would have always got in front of the committee and did it that way. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/23 "2009-12-07T18:26:44Z")
I assumed that they “got him” via some remote-triggering machinery hidden in that cardboard box we specifically saw someone place in the committee room and then take away. Really good episodes, can’t wait for next week. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/24 "2009-12-07T19:33:00Z")
I don’t think they “got him” via technology. I thought the point was that, despite knowing his marriage was fake, he decided he’d rather be an unknowing pawn and ditch all the people he’d been trying to help, than retain the memory of killing his handler. Also, it’s nicer and simpler for him to be who they made him into than to struggle with the fact that his base personality was so contemptible, while also realizing that the personality he’s using to make that judgment is artificial! So he told Echo to take a hike and voluntarily went back to the badder bad guys. It’s along the lines of what Sierra decided to do after committing murder, but a lot more selfish. ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/25 "2009-12-07T19:53:46Z")
I thought maybe he just realized the Dollhouse/Rossum was too big a fish to fry, and the only way he would be left alone would be to do what they wanted him to do. I think that’s what he and Echo were talking about before that. The senator didn’t want to go back to his old screwup self, but he didn’t want to go back to being a mindless pawn either. He wanted to continue his life as he currently was (the better version of himself), retaining the knowledge of what he really is but free to live his own life. I think they were trying to show that the tech behind the Dollhouse _could_ be used for good, in making people better. It doesn’t just have to be used to enslave them. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/26 "2009-12-07T20:38:45Z")
What was interesting to me was that the senator denied the existence of _all_ the dollhouses. At the begining of the episode, Adel was worried at Rossum would reveal the LA dollhouse in order to save the rest. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/27 "2009-12-07T23:52:42Z")
> [@Dr.Love](#): > > What was interesting to me was that the senator denied the existence of _all_ the dollhouses. At the begining of the episode, Adel was worried at Rossum would reveal the LA dollhouse in order to save the rest. Yeah, and that sort of bugged me from a logical standpoint. Assuming this was put in motion by Rossum to begin with, why burn down one of the houses, with all the attendant financial losses and risks? Once, say, the FBI or police went in with search warrants, would there be no records whatever of communication with the other houses, or back to Rossum HQ? What about evidence, which clearly must exist, of payments by some front entity to Mellie/November? The actual outcome, in which the Senator implied a plot by competing companies to smear Rossum, made a bit more sense. For that matter, doesn’t seem like having a congressional hearing would have been necessary to get the feds swarming over the LA house anyway, given that the very same address had been reported previously. OK, by Ballard, who was in disgrace, but still. Doesn’t really spoil my enjoyment of a couple of fine episodes, but still seems a bit of a mess, plotwise. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/28 "2009-12-08T13:10:17Z")
Just caught up on DVR - man what an excellent two hours. All the reasons you stated above. Summer Glau was excellent, although the comment about how Actives are pretty (meaning she is not) seemed false, as did the switcheroo where Senator Bush, erm, Doll ended up doing Rossum’s bidding… …Victor / Ghokaj is like Meryl frickin’ Streep - he should be famous as hell… Fun all around. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/29 "2009-12-08T17:05:16Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > This isn’t the first time Enver’s displayed that skill. He did a dead on Reed Diamond when they brought him “back” from being boxed. Yeah, his Dominic was amazing, as was his Topher. He’s phenomenal – if I’d closed my eyes, I wouldn’t have been able to tell his imitation from the original in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Pigs\_in\_Space](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@Pigs\_in\_Space](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pigs_in_Space)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/30 "2009-12-09T06:29:18Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Yeah, and that sort of bugged me from a logical standpoint. Assuming this was put in motion by Rossum to begin with, why burn down one of the houses, with all the attendant financial losses and risks? Once, say, the FBI or police went in with search warrants, would there be no records whatever of communication with the other houses, or back to Rossum HQ? What about evidence, which clearly must exist, of payments by some front entity to Mellie/November? The actual outcome, in which the Senator implied a plot by competing companies to smear Rossum, made a bit more sense. Spoilers for Epitaph One: Rossum’s goal with the Dollhouse isn’t to make money - they have plenty already. It is to operate for long enough to get the experience to put the immortality plan into action. Sacrificing one Dollhouse doesn’t matter, as long as it allows them to keep working on immortality. Now they are above reproach, and they can pass the laws they want. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/31 "2009-12-09T19:43:52Z")
I had another thought on the apparent “conversion” of the senator at the end. What if he is still fully in control of his faculties, and decided that the smarter move wasn’t to expose Rossum right now, as a junior senator, but play along with them? Make them think that he was back in the fold. And then when he becomes president (as is the apparent plan), he’ll finally have enough power to take them down for good. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/32 "2009-12-09T21:00:31Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I think they got him. He did was he was supposed to do, he exonerated the Rossell Corp (sp?). Rossum. A sly joke on the part of Whedon. As in “Rossum’s Universal Robots”; better known as “[R.U.R.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R._%28Rossum%27s_Universal_Robots%29)” ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/33 "2009-12-09T21:10:47Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > Yeah, his Dominic was amazing, as was his Topher. He’s phenomenal – if I’d closed my eyes, I wouldn’t have been able to tell his imitation from the original in either case. I’d guess he wants to go on to ‘serious acting’ after this show, and he’d be amazing at it. But I bet he’d also be welcome at SNL, where they always need versatile impressionists. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/34 "2009-12-10T04:29:20Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > If the earlier episodes this year had been at this level, the should wouldn’t have been canceled. Two of the best episodes of the entire series. Too bad it’s too little too late. Agreed. The arcs that Joss seems to wait to dive into til the second half of the season are far more interesting than the engagements-of-the-week. I think _Pushing Daisies_ and _Wonderfalls_ both suffered from the same syndrome, as has the current season of _Supernatural_. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/35 "2009-12-10T05:03:04Z")
The more I think about how great these episodes have been, the more I’m disappointed that it’s been canceled. This episode set up a lot for the future, with Rossum getting more power. And I think the combo of Topher and Bennett (with some inspiration of Alpha) will lead to the mind wiping future. I normally don’t read comics, but if he decides to continue Dollhouse in the form, I will definitely pick it up. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/36 "2009-12-10T13:26:33Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > The more I think about how great these episodes have been, the more I’m disappointed that it’s been canceled. This episode set up a lot for the future, with Rossum getting more power. And I think the combo of Topher and Bennett (with some inspiration of Alpha) will lead to the mind wiping future. > > I normally don’t read comics, but if he decides to continue Dollhouse in the form, I will definitely pick it up. _Dollhouse_ belongs to Fox. I recently read that Whedon does not want to do more work on their franchise. He was being polite, in fact–he did say it wasn’t “just Fox”. But I share your disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/37 "2009-12-11T16:30:35Z")
Just finished both episodes on Hulu. I’m late to the game so can only do a me-too post… Victor was great as Topher. As everyone said, dead-on. Summer Glau was \*so \*cute as a shy nerd! Even with her (very) dark side I still wanted her. These were two very good episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/38 "2010-01-08T02:40:29Z")
Just watched this ep… With the senator now in place, it really seems like the stage is set for the lead-up to Epitaph One, with the technology for remote imprinting looking closer to being realized and the political climate being set for it to fall into far too many hands. Here comes the apocalypse!.. And of course, just as these intriguing events are turning, the show gets canceled. BLARGH! ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063/39 "2010-11-12T03:53:11Z")
I apologize for being almost a year late to this. The season 2 DVDs just recently came out. I really love these two episodes. I think I’m in love with River^h^h^h^h^hBennett. She and Topher were also just perfect for each other. Victor as Topher just cracked me up. I’m also amused by the not-so-subtle Bush reference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dollhouse-12-04/520063.md?page=1)